suspecting of having ICH...

[trojannemo]

hey guys. well after 3 weeks with a new aquarium, and a rough start, i thought things were getting settled but i noticed 2 days ago as I was watching (which I do, closely and for minutes on end) the fish that my half black (i think) angelfish had like 7 white small spots on its body. I had read about ICH before so I thought it might be that. my tank temperature is set at around 79F with a heater (just because my house temperature would not let it drop below 78 anyways) and so from what I read that should have accelerated the life cycle of the bacteria.
I went to check the following day and the angelfish and all the other fish were completely (visibly) clean! nothing.then yesterday night he had 1 single white spot. now today he has 1 or 2 and I think i noticed 1 on my red wag platy as well. the fish dont seem to mind so far, they're swimming and eating and just behaving normally...but i know ICH can eventually kill them off, so, what can I do?
since my tank is new and i've gone through a rough start i'm still working towards finishing its cycle (by changing water every other day and adding cycle accelerating bacteria) and I've been told by several people to stop adding medication (for something I thought might have been fungus before). so i dont know if i should treat what may be ICH and risk as I've been told raising the ammonia with the medication and killing the fish, or ride out the ICH and see if it goes away or not do too much damage and risk having it kill my fish in its place....
which way to go? any suggestions greatly appreciated!

if it makes any difference, i've got about 20 fry swimming [in a breeder net] and getting along famously not dying or looking sick or anything, not minding the possible ICH outbreak, does that indicate anything good or bad or...?

sorry for the long post, i've just become long-winded as of late!

[carriej]

Put your temp up to 82 or so gradually and try adding some aquarium salt to the water. I'm not sure the exact dosage for ich, but there is an article somewhere.. Aha, here http://www.fishtankforums.com/fishtank/ich - That pretty much explains everything so have a read

[Loman]

giving the brief history you provide I expect that the challenges in the tank have subjected the fish to higher level of stress and that they have become more susceptible to ich.

I've been told by several people to stop adding medication (for something I thought might have been fungus before).
...
as I've been told raising the ammonia with the medication and killing the fish

IMO this is good advice but incorrect reasoning. I think it is important ot understand the reasoning as well as the advice. IMO people dump way too many things into a tank with little to no idea what the effects will be. I think that is a disaster waiting to happen. So I am in complete agreement that you should stop treating for something you thought might have been fungus by adding some med. Many meds have undesirable side effects. That said, I am not aware of any meds that directly raise ammonia levels (some kill the good bacteria that lows the ammonia level.

so i don't know if i should treat what may be ICH and risk

So based on the comments above, I would not advise treating for what could but might not be ich. That said I would try to find someone that could help you decide if the fish has ich or not. If you have an outbreak of ich then treating it is appropriate. There should be a good stick on the salt approach to address ich. Let me know if you don't see it and I will find it and post a link. In the case with salt treatment it is less invasive that most meds so I would probably use it fairly quickly.

Lastly I would still focus on the water tests and water changes to get through the start up issues and cycle stress. As the water params improve the overall health of the tank will increas too and the immune systems will be stronger to fight off some issues

[Tommy Gun]

Hey trojannemo! Loman and carriej are taking you in all the right directions, but thought these pictures might help:

[Jay]

Hey Tommy...

Would you post the pics in the ICH Article...that would be really helpful

Jay

[trojannemo]

those white spots are considerably bigger than the ones on my fish. mine look more like a grain of processed table salt...super small and thin but there nonetheless and more importantly, appearing and dissappearing from time to time. i read through the treatment and i'm going to try with the raised temperature and salt levels. from what i've read most of my fish (livebearers) can tolerate higher salt levels and even be acclimated to a saltwater tank, so i'll treat it with that.
it definetively doesn't look as bad as the picture tommygun put up, but i dont want it to get there! its either ICH or tiny air bubbles sticking to their skin from my bubble column and that seems unlikely...
i will try to get a picture...but this camera's not the best

[Tommy Gun]

it definetively doesn't look as bad as the picture tommygun put up, but i dont want it to get there!

Good plan. You want to treat ich as soon as you can because every white spot that falls off can reproduce into literally hundreds of new ones. Although...

its either ICH or tiny air bubbles sticking to their skin from my bubble column and that seems unlikely...

...you might want to turn your air pumps off for a little while (while you are watching, probably) to see if they go away. It is very possible that you are seeing really are air bubbles.

from what i've read most of my fish (livebearers) can tolerate higher salt levels and even be acclimated to a saltwater tank

Not all livebearers can do this...I am pretty sure it is only mollies. They can handle the salt for a short time though. Make sure you are using the right salt, dissolving it in water first, and then add it slowly so that you don't create more stress on your fish. ok?

[trojannemo]

well dont worry about the salt levels, i dont intend to make it into a saltwater tank! i'm using the freshwater aquarium salt from the LFS i had bought a while back and use as tonic every so often. according to the article i'm putting in 20 teaspoons over several hours so basically i'll spend the day dissolving and adding salted water. i did a water change, vacuum the substrate a little (breeder net doesnt allow me as much mobility as i would like for the moment) and then added the 2 gallons i had setup and salted from before.
right after i made the comment about your picture, i looked at the angelfish and he was covered with them. i started raising the temperature and adding the salt as i mentioned before and in an hour or so now he looks clean...i'll treat it for a week after i notice no more white spots anywhere. i dont intend on adding any livestock anyways so just keep the same fish as unstressed as I can. i've grown quite fond of them (especially the gouramis and the infected angelfish!) and wanted them to thrive

thanks for all your help. btw, my vote bumped you guys from #18 to #17 earlier today, so you're welcome this is really the best organized and most helpful forum i've ever been to.

EDIT: i know this is against what you just said but since i'm also raising the water temperature to eventually 84F(as per the article on how to treat ich), I did the opposite and increased the air bubbles to compensate for the lesser oxygenation in the water. i'm pretty sure now they're not air bubbles on the fish.

[Tommy Gun]

well dont worry about the salt levels, i dont intend to make it into a saltwater tank!

I know Just didn't want to leave that hanging out there in case someone else didn't know that.

EDIT: i know this is against what you just said but since i'm also raising the water temperature to eventually 84F(as per the article on how to treat ich), I did the opposite and increased the air bubbles to compensate for the lesser oxygenation in the water. i'm pretty sure now they're not air bubbles on the fish.

Right...I was just saying to turn them off to see if your fish don't have any bubbles on them afterwards. Both the addition of salt and higher water temps will reduce the oxygen levels in the tank so you want to make sure that you are pushing out as much CO2 and adding O2 the best you can.

I do appreciate your vote! I believe we will be trying to get on top of a few other lists as well - gotta get the word out becuase I agree, this forum has to have the most friendly and helpful members on the internet! And I am not just saying that!

[Jay]

The correct salt for Ich cure is NaCl (table salt)

Live-bearers like guppies and mollies etc. Need water rich in mineral salts in quantities close to their natural habitat. MINERAL SALTS ARE THE TRACE ELEMENTS AND ELECTROLYTES OTHER THAN CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM THAT MAKE UP GH.

STEP AWAY from that salt shaker!

Table salt NaCl or Aquarium Salt do not belong in a discussion about the 'salts' live-bearers need!!!!!

Regards,
Jay