Serious fin rot

[carriej]

I tried to save two of my fish from fin rot, but since both have died. I'm on day 2 of the treatment (melafix) should I continue using it for the 7 days just to be safe, or should I stop since the affected fish have died? The fin rot came on very fast, noticed it friday evening and it wasn't too severe, bought medication yesterday and started (both of the fish deteriorated a lot over a 24 hour period, endler had no tail fin and the female guppy had only a bit left, and the end was greyed), and both died yesterday. One endler's live bearer and one female blue guppy. Water changes once a week (20%) and my levels are:

Ammonia : 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10
Ph: 7.8

The female guppy cannot be found..I am not sure if my rainbow shark and corys cleaned her up or? I took all decorations out to look for her, she is just..gone! I did find the little endler and removed him. I am not sure what caused this, it literally seemed to come out of nowhere. Also, for filtration I do have carbon in my filter which I heard is a no-no. I seen something called "ginger" which looks like a blue floss used for aquarium filtration. I seen it at my LFS. Should I buy this and just cut it to fit into my filter and remove the carbon? I have some cermic biomax rings so as far as bacteria goes, I shouldn't lose all of it, but I will take a hit. I heard carbon can uncycle a tank, is this true? Any input would be appreciated!

EDIT: Thought I would mention that neither fish were getting picked on or neither should have been stressed and I am pretty sure that this was fin rot that I was dealing with.

[Loman]

Carriej,
It is difficult to be sure without seeing the fish etc. but typically fin rot is associated with poor water and high levels of stress. You indicate that neither condition is present. The water parameters are near ideal in fact. If that is correct then I wonder if you are dealing with fin rot or something else, especially given how fast you said it comes on..

[Tommy Gun]

Hey carriej - sorry to hear about your troubles.

My good friend loman definitely has you on the right track but thought I might add to it a little bit.

Judging by your comment about the fish not getting picked on, you probably know that fin rot has a few different causes. Based upon my observations on the forum, it seems like poor water quality is the most common suspect. On the other hand, the rot can set in because an injury provides an open door. Obviously I read that you have not witnessed any bullying, however, not only could an injury be caused by something else, but it could have been caused by injuries that are being inflicted at night time. In fact, that is definitely the case with my rainbow shark!

What other fish are in the tank?

What types of decor, substrate, rocks, etc... do you have in your tank? Anything sharp (e.g. lava rock)?

Have you checked all of your equipment such as pumps and/or filters to see if your missing fish is there? (I once lost a SW fish because it fit into my filter intake)

Are there any other signs or symptoms that you are seeing?

Any red streaks near the fins? Anywhere else?

Have you noticed your fish keeping their fins close to their body (clamped) most of the time?

I also believe that low water temp can cause tail/fin rot. Are you absolutely sure that your water temp is suitable for tropical fish?

Are you sure that you have enough heaters to easily maintain that temp? (btw, how big is this tank?)

Are you sure that you have enough water movement so that water temp is evenly distributed?

Are you sure that your heater(s) are able to maintain the proper water temp at night time when the ambient temperature may drop?

---
In short, my hypothesis is the same as Loman's....your water quality sounds ideal so that might be an unlikely cause. I also think that even though you may not be seeing it, you may have a fin nipper in your tank that enjoys doing so when it dark and the fish are less active. I am pretty sure that you water temp might be a cause as well.

To be honest, I have used melafix on one instance to treat fin rot on a SW fish (the one that got sucked into my filter actually) and it seemed to work...however, I once treated for the same thing with melafix in my display tank and along with pimafix, I lost ALL of my fish after the first dose. Anyways, other than my experience, I have to say that I really haven't read/heard about others having a whole lot of success with this treatment.

With that in mind, if you determine that this is fin rot, you might want to try treating with an antibiotic. Obviously you should definitely try to use these meds in a q-tank but if you cannot, you probably want to stick with a narrow-spectrum antibiotic that treats for gram-positive bacteria (if you find one that can treat fin rot) because your beneficial bacteria are gram-negative. This way you at least reduce the risk of un-cycling your tank. Otherwise, you can also attempt using antibiotic drops so that you can soak the fishes' food in and hence, less antibiotics are in the water column.

[carriej]

What other fish are in the tank?
3 Corys, one rainbowshark (mostly hangs with the corys in a little cave), 3 cherry barb fry, 2 endlers live bearers, 2 other guppies (female), baby flame gourami..Two swordtails (one male one female, still quite young) Thats it =D

What types of decor, substrate, rocks, etc... do you have in your tank? Anything sharp (e.g. lava rock)?
I have a few live plants (recently added too, could this be a cause? Added about 1.5 weeks ago) the rest of my plants are made from a material, not plastic. They look very realistic, they are quite soft so I do not think they could have injured themselves. My substrate is just basic aquarium rocks, bigger grains, smooth. I have a limestone ish looking rock in the back of my aquarium with caves in it, but thats mainly used by the cories and the rainbow shark -- most of the other fish don't swim down that low, and it's not sharp.


Have you checked all of your equipment such as pumps and/or filters to see if your missing fish is there? (I once lost a SW fish because it fit into my filter intake)
I have since found the missing female guppy. I found her resting on the java fern, she wasn't there on first inspection , not sure how she ended up there.

Are there any other signs or symptoms that you are seeing?
All my other fish seem perfectly normal. Eating well, swimming normal, no other signs of fin rot on other inhabitants. My gourami has a little mouth sore, but it's almost better, but I had known about this, I had to catch him to move him from a tank, and used a "fish trap" and lets just say he beat his poor little head off the side of it until he was put back into the tank. I have gotten rid of the fish trap.

Any red streaks near the fins? Anywhere else?
No red streaks that I can see, anywheres.


Have you noticed your fish keeping their fins close to their body (clamped) most of the time?
The only one who was clamping her fins was the blue female guppy that died, she did it after the fin rot set in.

I also believe that low water temp can cause tail/fin rot. Are you absolutely sure that your water temp is suitable for tropical fish?
I have one heater and two thermometers, usually I keep my tank at around 78 or 79. I raised the temp to 82 for the fin rot treatment.

Are you sure that you have enough heaters to easily maintain that temp? (btw, how big is this tank?)
The heater says it's good for a 50 gallon. My aquarium is a 27 hex (quite tall) I have the thermometers on the bottom so I know I have an accurate reading

Are you sure that you have enough water movement so that water temp is evenly distributed?
Lots of water movement. You can always see little particles (bubbles) moving around the tank. I have two air stones and my filter is quite powerful, also for use up to 40 gallons.

Are you sure that your heater(s) are able to maintain the proper water temp at night time when the ambient temperature may drop?
it's in my bedroom, which has baseboard heating. The room is always kept at a constant temp of 15 degrees celcius, the aquarium is always the same temp when I check it, which for the past couple days has been 82 for the treatment.