Absolutely horrible water change!!!! HELP!

Tommy Gun · 09-28-2006, 08:37 PM

Hello again everyone!

Well, I just finished another water change and was very confident going into this one as it was just the same as any other I have done (think I am on about five with the salt water tank, but have done tons in freshwater, so I should have known what I was doing)

First, the difference between this water change and my others was that I caught my four damsels and returned them to the LFS for some store credit. Sounds easy, but it was the hardest thing I could have imagined I would be doing tonight! I ended up having to take out almost all of my live rock (placed it in buckets of the old water and my Q-tank). I finally caught them, but holy cow!!!! I was tired before I even began putting water (and the rock) back into the tank!

So, if you reference my signature (soon to be changed to reflect the change in damsels), you can see that I have a porcupine puffer in the tank. First, I must say that I am pretty amazed that it didnt attack me, but I know for a fact that I must have put it through hell for about an hour trying to catch the other fish.

My question regarding this puffer is that I know they are easy to 'catch' Ich, but recent threads by people on here and other sites have changed my theory on Ich. I had been led to believe the Ich was in a tank, no matter what and so if you stress out your fish enough, they would/could 'catch' it (I say 'catch' because I dont know if this is the right term). Now, I understand that Ich is not in every tank and must be introduced through another fish, invert, etc... So does this mean I can somewhat relax if I know all my fish were quarenteened and do not have Ich? They are the only fish who have ever been in this tank and they were all in there for over two weeks with no sign of Ich symptoms.

As for the rest, I had posted a reply on how I perform my water changes to a thread that ggmichael had posted. (Please refer to it so I dont have to type it all out again. It was entitled 'water changes' I believe). Without the aid of my wife, who had gone to the lfs to return the damsels, I basically was forced to hold down my hose with the water running back into the tank with a rock so that I could turn on the pump and check the water levels in both the tank and the garbage can that held the water I was changing with. SOOOOO DUMB, because I basically stirred about half the live sand in my tank up and it is now mixed ever so well into the water.

Now I am worried about the puffer mostly because I know that the tank can recover without dying, but I dont know about my single poor fish. I was really proud of him though for not taking a big chunk of my arm!

Can someone please help me with the Ich question and let me know if there is any other possible problems that I may have created by this water change gone wrong?!?!?!?!?!?

thewebpop · 09-28-2006, 09:04 PM

Tommy Gun, Man sounds like a long day for you. Sorry your having so much trouble. I do know that the Ich can only be introduced into the tank so if you have not had any problem for awhile and you have not added anything new you should be able to breath easy there. As for the other nightmare issues you are having...I will leave for Jay and Aaron as well as others to answer. Good Luck Sir,
Later, Pop's

Tommy Gun · 09-28-2006, 09:26 PM

Thanks Pops! Just needed to hear that from someone else in order to gain some more confidence.

This was really just a learning experience for me. With my tank, on its stand, taller than I am, I should have waited for my wife to help me, but I didnt want to leave the rock out of the tank for too long and leave my puffer with only half the water movement the tank normally gets. Using an overflow system has its drawback because my sump cannot be fed unless the tank is full. The sump is of course where the heater, skimmer, and all that good junk is located, so the water was basically just sitting in the tank.

I checked my salinity and temps a minute ago and all is good. Not sure if doing any water testing right now would be worth it since this ended up being about a 40% water change after all the splashing and water I had to take out to get those damsels. Lesson learned though....never put a small, quick fish in a big tank with lots of hiding spots that you are not going to keep forever!

Thanks again.

thewebpop · 09-28-2006, 09:33 PM

HaHaHa... sorry I do not mean to laugh but I am sitting here with the image of you standing on a box chasing these little "Racers" up and down and all around without luck. You have to admit it probably looked funny if you were not the one doing it!

Hope things get better, Later, Pop's

ggmichael · 09-29-2006, 07:25 AM

Yikes!!! Sorry Tommy for your trouble. That definitely lends credit to Aaron saying, don't get Damsels because they are aggressive later and can be hard to get out of the tank

We are leaving tomorrow out of town for 4 days and leaving the reef behind for 4 days with the lights on a timer. It ought to be curious to see what we come back to lol. We are starting to get alot of algae growth. I really enjoy all of you here and look forward to reading and learning, cuz I learn something just about everytime.

GG

Jay · 09-29-2006, 08:23 AM

Hey Tommy,

Don't want to laugh, but you got to admit it does create a funny picture

I have had the same issue in a heavily planted tank where a fish can disappear and hide for days.

The Ich information is correct. Ich is introduced into the tank end of story. Now, 1 or 2 ich parasites can come with a fish, usually attached to the gills where you would not see it, and take a long time before they reproduce and become noticeable. That is where the myth of them existing in every tank comes from.

Jay

ahill3780 · 09-29-2006, 12:39 PM

I am a little confused on the final question. Are you concerned for your puffers sake because you stirred the sand up in the tank, or because you removed the damsels?

To answer the first, no problems will be had because of a sandstorm. Sandstorms occur naturally on the reef and the fish have learned to live with it.

As to the second, removing the damsels will not have any large effect on the health of the tank except to decrease some waste production which would benefit the puffers health.

As far as Ich goes, Freshwater Ich and Marine Ich are two different things, and what is true for one is not always true for the other. However, they are both introduced and if you keep a healthy approach to stocking your tank you should not have anything to worry about.

Still, I would recommend a healthy diet for the fish to keep their immune system strong. A healthy fish will not have to worry about infection even if the tank is slightly contaminated. A healthy fish that is fed properly that gets sick is an indication of degrading water quality.

HTH,
Aaron

Tommy Gun · 09-29-2006, 05:13 PM

Thanks for all the information! My primary concern is somewhat of an assumption on my part, which we all know assuming is bad, but hopefully my assumption here is just more of a precaution rather than a jump to a conclusion.

My concern is that the tank is relatively new, like I explained in a previous post (and I believe in the pictures segment of the salt water thread.). I have read a lot of information on how bioloads can change more rapidly in salt water, versus freshwater. This is why a 90 gallon tank can hold more freshwater fish than saltwater fish and why it is not good to introduce tons of new fish into a saltwater tank all at one time. So, my assumption was that if I took out four of five fish in my tank, there might be a lack of wastes and my bacteria colonies would not be as well supported.

I am thinking about this because I am in the midst of some research as to what I will want to stock my tank with. Thinking about the puffer in my tank, if I find a good stocking option that I find desirable to me and my family, then I would like to keep it. Knowing that it is going to get somewhat large and is a predatory fish, I would like to help ensure that my tank has enough capability to deal with this fish's wastes and what-nots. Also knowing that it is predatory, I understand that the best companions are going to be more agressive type fish and so wastes will again be increased in the same way as the puffer will.

On the other hand, if I find that the puffer is going to severly limit my stocking options, which I am unsure of because the fish I have is behaving differently that some of the info I have read on them says it would do, I will still like to keep the puffer in the tank until I decide when and where I will get my new fish and in what order I will need to introduce them.

So, this is my reasoning for the questions I was asking. The question about salinity is great because now I can better judge how to add salt to my RO water that I am preparing for water changes. I know it sounds like being a penny pincher, but I try not to heat the water up until about 24 to 48 hours before I plan to use it. Since it takes me two full days to make 30 gallons of water, this process of curing and prepping for water changes is about a week long process for me. Any time I can help out my electric bill, I will usually go that route.