Hunchbacked Guppy Disease?

Lava · 07-31-2007, 07:16 PM

Has anyone with guppies ever experienced a guppy who was hunchbacked? Is it a genetic malformation, or is it a disease causing this? I had one female who appeared to get worse, she wasn't as big bodied as another female I purchased at the same time. She didn't seem to be growing as well, and it progressed to where her tail would hang down giving her a hunched looking back. She had a heck of a time swimming so I got rid of her thinking that it is definately something I don't want in my tank. Genetic or otherwise. Now another female I purchased is starting to exibit the same thing. While she show's no outward signs of being ill, I don't even begin to know what I'm dealing with. No book I've read has ever mentioned this. Any insight is highly appreciated.

penna32 · 07-31-2007, 08:15 PM

can you post us a picture ?

pappyy3 · 07-31-2007, 09:10 PM

Hi.

I had the same problem when I was breeding guppies on a regular basis.

This is not a disease and it is definitely caused by defective genes in the fish - although I ever saw it develop in females and only after they had bred. The deformity gets worse as the guppy grows or matures, to the point where it has difficulty swimming - as you've described.

It didn't seem to retard the growth though, as some of the females I had were extremely large.

The solution I followed (although not pleasant) was to cull all my females affected by this. I kept the baby male guppies they produced, but did not breed from them, as I didn't want to pass on this defective gene to other fish in my breeding program. The males never showed any signs of the defective gene, so I'm guessing they could be carriers.

Did you buy the other female from the same LFS?? If so, they may be getting their fish from someone who is breeding from stock with this defective gene.

I would try getting your guppies from a different source and see if this makes a difference.

Tommy Gun · 07-31-2007, 09:29 PM

Welcome to the forum Lava!

Pappy is going to start hating me pretty soon if I keep on disagreeing with him, but in reality, I am not completely disagreeing...I have heard a lot about deformaties that occur due to over breeding or in breeding so that could very well be the case here as well.

However, I also went through a similar situation myself, and even though it wasn't a guppy (it was a yellow lab cichlid), after I asked about the 'hunchback fish" I had, I was almost immediately warned that this could be one symptom of "Fish TB" as well. This is an important consideration IMHO because, as I understand it, it can also be transmitted to humans as well...or at least it seems as though some hobbyists and/or researchers feel that it can be. Like with anything, there are also those who believe otherwise as well.

The reason why I bring this point up is because, even though it sounds as if no one is completely 100% sure on this (nor on exactly which bacteria cause it, I believe), I have read in a few places, including a book on tropical fish diseases which was printed relatively recently, that fish TB is more prevalant in aquariums which are overstocked...for example, my intentionally overstocked cichlid tank, and possibly an overstocked LFS aquarium (which, as far as I have noticed, seems to be extremely common, even if for a semi-good reason).

Like I said though, this could be exactly as pappyy3 states and just a case of 'bad genes'...but to be sure, it might not be a bad idea to do some research on Fish TB so that you can browse through the other symptoms so that you can compare them to your fish(es). IMHO, it is better to be safe now than sorry later on.

Again, sorry pappyy3...I swear I am not trying to disagree with you on everything, even though I realize it seems like it!

pappyy3 · 08-02-2007, 12:56 AM

Haaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaa

I'm always up for a good debate TG.

No offence taken.

Take care ..............

Lava · 08-02-2007, 02:05 AM

Thank you for the welcome. I'll try and get photo's up as soon as I can. The female in question at this moment is from a LFS, for all of you MI, OH, IN people (Meijers) to be exact. For those of you in other states, it would be similar to buying from Wal-Mart. Now I don't usually buy from places exactly like these, however fish facilities are limited in this area. Very limited unless you want to drive a hour and a half there, and a hour and a half back. Every once in a while I peek in the tanks, although I'm very hesitant about what I purchase. I'm the girl who'll sit there for 10 minutes at each tank watching every single fish, searching for signs of disease or sickness. Normal people would think of it as crazy, but I'm not looking to bring disease home to my tanks so I find the search method effective for the most part.

I definately take both answers into consideration and I will be looking up fish TB. I'll admit I didn't know it occured in aquatic animals, although I'm very aware of it in livestock and wildlife, especially deer.

I'm gonna start naming some fish, We'll say Lucy, and Blue. Both girls were purchased, not from Meijers, but a pet store. Seem like very decent people. They refuse to sell fish out of visibly infected tanks, and while it sucks when you see a good one in a red marked tank, it's better for everyone that they do work that way. The tanks are not largely over crowded. Their fish are also slightly more expensive than your Meijers/Wal-mart fish, of course depending on species. I so far have found the location, slight price increase, and quality of fishes to be better and fish from that stock make up the majority of my tank.

Both Blue and Lucy came from that location. As well as Lava, Red, Rainbow, and Velvet (my male guppy troupe). When I purchased these guys they were all about a inch in length. Older than babies, but not fully mature adults either. Of the two Blue gave me a batch of fry, while Lucy's batch seemed to disappear. Possibly eaten, although I found some dead floating in the bottom of the breeding trap too. It has been 4 months since that first batch of fry. About a month back I noticed that Lucy seemed to be slightly thinner in body and taking on the hunched back shape. She also wasn't growing as healthy as what Blue was. At 12 days ago she didn't appear to be getting any better, and if anything she was getting worse. So no offense to anyone else's fish practices but I'm a net and flush type. That became her fate and she didn't even struggle in the net as the other fish would do no problem. A few days later after Lucy I happened to be up at Meijers and got the bug to pick up a few more girls for my fighting males. They've been bickering amongst each other with Red chewing on Lava's beautiful tail. Blue's fry are still juveniles but now large enough to be in this community tank, however not large enough to seem to keep Red happy. I picked up two half blacks, and two with the red/silver tail combo. I kept them seperate for a week with ick treatments just in case. Followed through with a ick treatment in the large tank for a just in case, and migrated the girls over there ( I needed the tank/bowl again for Blue anyways as she's ready to go any day now). A few days in I lost a hb female to who know's, and the other hb was starting to have the drooping tail and hunch back appearance. She's now on day 6 going on day 7. She spends the majority of her time near the surface in the back corner. She'll come out to feed and when she swims quickly her tail straightens out, but if she slows back down she goes to dropped tail position. She seems almost healthy in every other way. Everyone else seems very happy and content. So I'm really at a loss. As of right now I'm seeing how things go. She's still eating at both feedings, and doesn't spend a whole lot of time swimming around the tank. She still stays to her corner. I'll get those photo's though when I can, and thank you guys for the replies.

doodlebug · 08-29-2007, 11:12 AM

I have had a similar experience recently with a zebra fish. It's back got extremely hunched but it also had what looked like an enlarged anus, it could have been a hole in the body in that area. These Zebras have been in my tank for about 8 months and appeared to be healthy. I'm now having trouble with my female guppies (another post). Not the same symptoms though, totally different. I don't think I've overstocked, 20 gallon with 13 fish or is this too many? I'm completely puzzled. I vacuum once a week and do 25% water change on all tanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Gun

Welcome to the forum Lava!

Pappy is going to start hating me pretty soon if I keep on disagreeing with him, but in reality, I am not completely disagreeing...I have heard a lot about deformaties that occur due to over breeding or in breeding so that could very well be the case here as well.

However, I also went through a similar situation myself, and even though it wasn't a guppy (it was a yellow lab cichlid), after I asked about the 'hunchback fish" I had, I was almost immediately warned that this could be one symptom of "Fish TB" as well. This is an important consideration IMHO because, as I understand it, it can also be transmitted to humans as well...or at least it seems as though some hobbyists and/or researchers feel that it can be. Like with anything, there are also those who believe otherwise as well.

The reason why I bring this point up is because, even though it sounds as if no one is completely 100% sure on this (nor on exactly which bacteria cause it, I believe), I have read in a few places, including a book on tropical fish diseases which was printed relatively recently, that fish TB is more prevalant in aquariums which are overstocked...for example, my intentionally overstocked cichlid tank, and possibly an overstocked LFS aquarium (which, as far as I have noticed, seems to be extremely common, even if for a semi-good reason).

Like I said though, this could be exactly as pappyy3 states and just a case of 'bad genes'...but to be sure, it might not be a bad idea to do some research on Fish TB so that you can browse through the other symptoms so that you can compare them to your fish(es). IMHO, it is better to be safe now than sorry later on.

Again, sorry pappyy3...I swear I am not trying to disagree with you on everything, even though I realize it seems like it!

Wonka22 · 09-19-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doodlebug

I have had a similar experience recently with a zebra fish. It's back got extremely hunched but it also had what looked like an enlarged anus, it could have been a hole in the body in that area. These Zebras have been in my tank for about 8 months and appeared to be healthy. I'm now having trouble with my female guppies (another post). Not the same symptoms though, totally different. I don't think I've overstocked, 20 gallon with 13 fish or is this too many? I'm completely puzzled. I vacuum once a week and do 25% water change on all tanks.

I actually came to the forum to ask about this very same issue...cept I don't notice the extremely large anus....she is severely hunchbacked and now doesn't eat...i'm sure she's on her last days.

Lava · 09-30-2007, 09:16 PM

This is similar, but not the same. This is Blue, and she isn't dying. She has what some have described when a female has had after a few sets of babies. The females that died on me were shaped like this, although their tails tended to droop a little lower. So far I've had no other's like this since those last few.