Water Question

ggmichael · 09-20-2006, 02:59 PM

It's me again...for water changes, it seems that research says tap water might not be that great (I realize it probably depends on the different city water systems, but suffice it to say ours probably is not very good). We are looking at having Ozarka delivered, but it seems the only kind we can get is "Spring Water". Even though the mineral levels look pretty low, we aren't sure that is ok for SW. We also have found that most say distilled water is the best, but we can only buy that in gallon jugs and we need about 15-17 gallons for each change (we have a 70 gal tank). As usual, thanks for the input -- GG.

yoshi191 · 09-20-2006, 03:24 PM

i used spring i hope thats ok too ...

ggmichael · 09-20-2006, 04:02 PM

Hubby says I am confused...go figure. We originally used tap water to fill the bank and then put some chemical thing in it to get rid of the yuck. He said he was planning on using Distilled Water for evaporation and tap water again with the chemical thing for water changes. Obviously this would be alot cheaper than spring water for water changes, but of course we will pay the extra bux for the best kind of it would help. He said of course RO is the best but that is not an option.

ahill3780 · 09-21-2006, 10:39 PM

GG, just curious, why is RO not an option? If you figure the cost of purchasing spring or distilled water over the life of your tank compared to that of owning and operating an RO/DI unit for the same time then you will quickly see that the RO unit is the cheaper in the long run, it just has a higher entry cost.

As far as spring water goes you will be fine so long as it does not contain copper. Fish only tanks aren't really as demanding in water quality (mineral wise) as reef tanks are.

Distilled water is not recommended for freshwater tanks because it is devoid of all nutrients. So far as I am aware, perhaps Jay or someone else can provide us with any more information on this if they read this post.

The same is not true for saltwater tanks because the essential nutrients needed are mixed in with the salt. When you mix the salt in the distilled water it will replenish everything except the dissolved oxygen levels. Run an airstone in the mix for a few days and adjust the pH if needed and you'll be just fine using this.

Again I would like to say that it is my opinion that anyone interested in owning a reef tank should seriously consider using an RO unit to ensure that no unwated minerals or nutrients are included that could harm your specimens.

HTH,
Aaron

ggmichael · 09-23-2006, 10:30 AM

Ok well Aaron now you done it!! Now hubby is looking into RO...I thought it was not an option because I thought you indicated it was real expensive and wasted alot of water. He is looking at an underthe sink model but it seems like it runs slow; wouldn't it take awhile to get 15 gallons together? Oh one other question, can the saltwater be made a week before you use it or is that too long?

Jay · 09-23-2006, 12:38 PM

Distilled water is biologically dead. It will not support life in an aquarium.
To use distilled water it must have its KH restored, trace minerals, dissolved gases added etc. etc. This is true for both fresh and saltwater tanks.

RO water is highly filtered (most if not all of the bad guys are out) but it is not pure (distilled) water. You then adjust it to suit your needs by adding sw stuff or fresh water stuff, as needed.

The only reason I know of for distilled water to be sold is for devices like humidifiers, or vaporizers, or steam irons where you do not want any clogging by mineral deposits that would be left behind by tap or bottled water.

It seems to me you need to be comfortable with what water chemistry your particular tank requires, and then make a decision on the best way for you to achieve that based on your resources/finances.

Jay

ggmichael · 09-23-2006, 04:54 PM

Aaron I hope you know I was totally teasing you

Tommy Gun · 09-24-2006, 12:24 PM

I have two main 'hobbies' in my life right now, one is obviously keeping fish, and the other is cooking. I recently saw a show on the cooking channel (Good Eats with Alton Brown if you have cable in the US) and the host went through the differences between the types of water we usually purchase from the store or water distributors.

The point of the show was that different labels of water can be misleading. For example, there is artesian water and spring water. Spring water (if I remember correctly) is water 'harvested' above the ground from a spring that naturally brings the water to the surface. Artesian spring water however is a man made well drilled to a certain depth to get water. Artesian spring water is actually more pure than regular spring because it has been fitlered naturally a lot more through more dense rock. Spring water could be coming from any depth under ground and so it is a crap shoot as far as its purity.

I know that in my area, ALL of the major water carriers offer RO water for purchase and will actually deliver it to your home for a reasonable price. I was turned off by this option though because it came in large bottles with a small opening so I could really add my salt, mix the water, and heat it to the same temp as my tank in the bottle. I couldnt cut the top off either since the bottles came with a deposit.

So, I did the math and bought an RO unit because it would pay for itself in about a year. My advice is to go directly to an LFS to buy your RO unit though because they are MUCH cheaper and have higher outputs than any units I saw at Home Depot or other hardware type stores. (The highest output I could find at those stores was 11 gallons per day)

Do not be fooled though. An RO unit that states it will produce 25 gallons of pure water a day, like the one I bought, will NOT make 25 gallons in 24 hours. My unit made about 7 gallons the first day and has now steadily increased to make about 20 to 22 gallons per day. You will need a dedicated faucet for the unit to run all day also. I use the basin type sink in my basement since I dont ever use it and it already has a faucet that a garden hose can attatch to, which is the same type of connection most RO units come with (you can buy seperate connectors though if you need). They also need some pressure to help them work faster. I simply run my faucet at full blast and I get relativly good pressure.

I think that RO is obviously the best option (I learned that from Aaron), but obviously people have been keeping salt water tanks for longer than RO units have been available. I have heard a lot of people in my area using tap water and water conditioners in their salty tanks, but the drawback is that most city water has high phosphate contents, which will help feed algea. My city water is actually drawn straight from Lake Michigan and is run through a phosphate "magnet", but you may want to do full testing on just your water, then add some salt and test again, then heat it and test one more time. Salt and temp will make your water chemistry change.

ggmichael · 09-24-2006, 12:30 PM

Thanks Tommy for the reply, it kinda clears things up for me. It definitely sounds like a slow process, not necessarily expensive, but just not sure about the timing. Question...is the RO only used for evaporation or do you use the RO for all water changes?

Tommy Gun · 09-24-2006, 12:55 PM

My intent is to use RO water as much as possible. I actually only put tap water in my tank to test my seals for leaks, and then proceeded to fill it up with RO water.

The system I have set up is somewhat low tech, but it works well. Like I said, my RO unit is set up in my basement's basin sink. The 'bad' water that comes out of the RO unit goes down the sink's drain and the good water is filtered into a garbage can (I have three super heavy duty, BRAND NEW cans, but only use two so far).

The garbage cans allow me to keep larger amounts of water to add salt to and I can simply drop a heater in one to get it to the same temp as my tank. The only problem is how to get it up to my tank, which is upstairs. Using buckets or jugs wasnt a good option since the tank, on its stand, is taller than I am, so I bought an 800 gallon per hour pump and some 1 inch tubing from the hardware store. The tube reaches up to my tank and the pump loses enough power in all that distance that the water comes out at a manageable speed. The best part is that I dont have to do hardly any work.

My RO unit cost about 120 dollars (US) and the real cost is in my water bill, which isn't all that huge except for the first time I filled the tank. Remember that the RO unit will use a lot more water than it makes, which is important if you have to pay for city water like I do.

I think that the main issue would be to keep using the same type of water. Obviously, it would be better to switch your tank from tap water (treated) to RO water because it is more pure than it would be to switch from RO water to lower quality tap water (even if it is treated).

I also use glass tops to help reduce evaporation, but this causes a slight increase in tank temp since the air cannot cool the water as much. I find that I only have to add less than 10 gallons over a week and a half. The nice thing about my system is that you cannot see the evaporation in my tank, but only in my sump. Some people also pipe an RO unit to drain directly into their tank to fill up evaporated water loss. This can be made automated with the use of a valve that will shut off when the water reaches a certain level. That is a little bit over my level so far though and so I just use the garbage can and submersable pump method.