Unfiltered Aquarium and general fish questions

RedRobin · 07-26-2010, 01:23 PM

Okay, I'm new here and I have a couple questions I need help with. We just recently bought set up a 29 gallon fish tank at home. It's filtered, has a heater, plants, places to hide. All my PH and Ammonia levels are reading great. I brought five new fish home yesterday. One was a cory catfish (and I'm not sure what kind exactly he was) and to speckled catfish, two platys, and an unknown fish. My questions is for this tank: I put the fish in and everything seemed fine. Later on I checked on all the newbies and the cory catfish that was slightly smaller than the others was being clung onto by one of approx 8 ghost shrimp we have in the tank. I got up this morning and feed them all and found a ghost shrimp trying to eat his dead carcus.

Is it possible the Ghost shrimp killed the catfish?

My second questions about this tank is that one of my platy's had fry but I didn't know it until it was too late and now all the babies have disappeared. We had just done our 20% water change so I might have sucked them up in the gravel siphon. But there were two left that my husband found in the tank. They disappeared too. Is there any way these fry will survive without being transported to a breading net or another tank. I bought additional grass because the guy at the petstore said they like to hide in that. I know we will end up with more because we have three males and two females (yes I realize my ratio is off but we had deathes and a pet shop guy who didn't know to tell the difference between the males and females so instead of one male and one female we got two males). How do i help them stay alive without removing them from the tank or put them in a breeding net.

My 2 1/2 gallon tank at work is heated but no filter. I can't have a filter that makes noise and has to be plugged in. We are not allowed to plug stuff up at my job. I cheated with the heater. This is where I have my betta. I was thinking about adding a couple cory catfish but I didn't know that they could survive without the filter.

I know it's a long involved post but I need some advice. HELP!!! Thank you.

Judge · 07-26-2010, 06:35 PM

Answer to first question is purely my opinion but none of your new tanks have cycled so they are toxic to fish. I do not think your shrimp killed anything. As far as having a very small tank with many fish and no filter...

, not sure why you would want to torture your fish.

Please view the video tutorials on Fishless cycling, it might help some. You have not provided much info as far as the water params? What are the Nitrite, Nitrate, ph, ammonia levels at? What kind of testing equipment are you using and what about a feeding schedule??

RedRobin · 07-26-2010, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge

Answer to first question is purely my opinion but none of your new tanks have cycled so they are toxic to fish. I do not think your shrimp killed anything. As far as having a very small tank with many fish and no filter...

, not sure why you would want to torture your fish.

Please view the video tutorials on Fishless cycling, it might help some. You have not provided much info as far as the water params? What are the Nitrite, Nitrate, ph, ammonia levels at? What kind of testing equipment are you using and what about a feeding schedule??

First off, I find your response very rude and judgemental. I didn't ask to be judged on whether you believe a fish should or should not be in a filtered tank. I asked if any fish other than the betta could be added and if not then that's fine. Secondly,we cycled the filtered tank per instructions that were given by the petstore and paperwork that came with the tank. My ammonia levels are at 0 and my PH is 8.2. According to everything I've read these are acceptable levels for fish. I've had my water tested at our pet store 3 times. Third, I'm not trying to torture my fish at all. Torture would be flushing it down the toilet. I moved it to a tank because it was in a very small vase and I felt it was too confined. Which according to all the pet stores its perfectly acceptable for a Betta. Heck most Betta habitats are less than half the size of my tank. I cannot have a filter at my job, I was hoping to find a wireless, battery operated one but they don't make one. I had already purchased the fish to put in the vase. Based on everything I've read the happiness or healthyness of a fish, betta specifically, is controversial depending on where you read your information from. You make rude statements on this site and instead of trying to be helpful. you talk down to your members and offer your personal opinions on what you believe should be how a fish should live. People who are new to this site and keeping fish can't take this rudeness well. I certainly find that it is unacceptable and if rudeness continues I will remove my membership from this site. I came for help and all I got was judgement and rudeness. Thanks for nothing.

Judge · 07-26-2010, 07:55 PM

Sorry Red Robin, not trying to be judgmental, rude or unkind in any way. You stated "we had deathes" and I was attempting to offer possible reasons for your problems. I may have misunderstood but I thought you stated that your tanks had been up for two weeks? Not really enough time to cycle properly.
As far as the filter question I am sorry the "torture" remark upset you. My point was the waste from the fish, including any uneaten food, has to be removed so a filter is rather important. If you were not aware of your company's policy on electrical use maybe it would be better to take the fish home?
Again, sorry for any perceived rudeness. I was not being judgmental, just offering an opinion.

Fitz · 07-26-2010, 07:56 PM

If you have a heater that is plugged in, then I would definitely consider replacing it with a filter. A filter IMO is way more important than a heater. You might be concerned about noise but most filters they make nowadays are quiet. I may not be answering it all. But I hope this helps.

RedRobin · 07-27-2010, 12:10 PM

Well, out of the five fish I brought home the other day one of the Cory Catfish is the one that we lost. He was smaller than the others and a different coloring. I think he was sick before he got in the tank though because my daughter said he was upside down in the bag on the way home and I know they do that when they are going to kick the bucket. He didn't last 24 hours. All the other fish have been doing fine.

If tanks are supposed to cycle for two weeks then they need to rewrite their literature and inform the pet stores they are giving incorrect advice to their customers. This is our first tank and we asked a ton of questions at the pet store. They told us two days was fine. We were only doing as instructed by the petstore and the paperwork that came with the tank. I'm just saying, if that's they case there are lost of people out there giving wrong instructions.

In regards to the tank I have at work. Yes I was aware of their policy for no outside appliances, which basically is what it is if It has to be plugged in. Can anyone suggest and very quiet or even a silent filter. I am also having a horendous time trying to find a top for my tank. The company put a sheet in the tank stating they had covers/hoods for the tank I have. I cannot find any anywhere. Right now I have a piece of heavy stock paper over it. I don't mind flubbing the rules if I can find a filter that is really quiet. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you.

Judge · 07-27-2010, 01:10 PM

Sorry RedRobin for the troubles. I really am! You can read countless posts about pet stores that have given truly awful advice. They are in business, we are just here to help. I highly recommend the article, "Cycling for Dummies, written by One" and/or the video on the topic. It is a subject that is important, but at times is hard to grasp. I struggled with it when I first began.

I have learned to research everything about this hobby that I would like to try, before doing anything, in order to avoid as many mistakes as possible. It has helped me, but I can assure you I have made mistakes as we all have. but when I need advice or help I come here and learn from the members, especially Jay, Uncle Jed and Zero!
There is also an article on filter comparisons but I cannot remember the sizes. I use Cascades on all my tanks and have one for my 75 Amazon that is within two feet from where my head is when I sleep! These are very quiet, but I do not know how small they come. I will research a little and get back to you....but it is a place to start.
Again, I don't mean to bash the local fish/pet stores but they do not always have sound advice. A "miracle potion" that is suppose to ,magically cycle the tank in two days..well, it's snake oil! If you take your water in to be tested and they tell you, "it's good, or normal" I would ask them what does that mean. It really does not tell you what is going on. Ask specific questions like what is the Nitrite level or the Nitrates. That might give a little more insight into how your tank is progressing. Without monitoring the daily progress it is hard to know exactly where the cycle is.
I hope this helps some. Please keep us posted.

RedRobin · 07-27-2010, 10:53 PM

I'm sorry if I was abrupt with my original response. I am just frustrated with being told one thing by the people who are supposed to know what they are talking about and then reading so huge an opposite response from all the aquarium sites.

Example, When I went to go get some new fish for my tank I was looking for one male platy for sure. The guy at the pet store told me he didn't see any males. That tank was full of males. I had to tell him how to tell the different between female and males. I had looked it up on the internet after we got our first three. I ended up with two more males instead of one male and one female cuz he told me the first one he put in the bag was a female and I didn't look close enough until after I had paid for the fish. He also sold me a mystery fish. I need to find out if this fish is gonna get bigger than my tank can handle with the size fish I have in there now. I took a picture of it and I hope that someone can help me figure out what this fish is. He's chasing the Zebra Danios away from the top of the tank. Does any one know what this fish is? I think I attached a pic successfully.

ZeroSystem · 07-29-2010, 12:24 AM

Welcome to FTF RedRobin, sorry to hear about your troubles with your tank.

It's really hard to say what kind of fish that is exactly. The pic is a bit rough and it doesn't look like a type I've kept myself. I'm going to take a guess and say a scissor tail rasbora?? Again, just a guess.

Yeah, you've got to really watch out when gathering information from petstores. Keep in mind, their goal is to sell you stuff, and if your fish are dying often that just means you'll be back for more right? Sounds cruel, but unfortunatly it's all too common with fish, who lack the 'fuzzy factor' of other pets. Don't get me wrong, there are pet stores out there with knowledgable staff, I actually work at one, they're just few and far between. Like you've already learned, do your own research first, then when you go to the store you'll be teaching the employees a thing or two about what they're sellin'.