poor water or poor test kit?

[caseydtaylor]

I have a 33 gal. freshwater planted with 2 small plants 2 flagtail prochicklodus 1 clown knife 1 green spotted puffer and 1 unknown algae eater. my filter hangs on the back and inside it I have pro carb z which is supposed to be carbon and ammonia remover. Any way my water looks clear and my fish seem healthy but when I test my water the readings say my fish should all be dead. my ammonia is between 2.0 and 4.0 my nitrate is between 20 and 40 my Ph is 6 and my nitrite is 0.25 sorry the readings are vague but that is how th Kit measures it. I have done water changes and treat the tap water with ammonia chloramine eliminator before adding. these readings have been pretty constant for about 4 weeks before, between and after water changes. I was told to try to water changes every other week instead of every week

[Loman]

I am questioning the test some as well because as you say with those readings I would expect problems in the tank. I assume you are using strips. Is that correct? Are they stored in a relatively cool dry place and reasonably fresh? There are also a few other things that would help us understand the situation better. Can you test the tap/source water and let us know what the ammonia nitrite etc. are for that. Also can you give us a bit of history on the tank. how long has it been set up, how did you cycle it, did you ever have zwero ammonia readings?

[orb4me]

Casey; Loman is right, check the tap water. I was shocked that my water has nitrAtes in it. uck. You might find out you do/dont have ammonia, and/or not enough chlorine to need the chemicals. JMO

[caseydtaylor]

The test I am using is an aquarium pharmaceuticals master test kit guy at the pet store at least knew strips suck but he also said there is little or no difference between NH3 and NH4 I know there is I just don't know what it is. Anyway my tap water readings are as follows. PH 7.2 nitrite 0 ammonia 0 nitrate 10. To be honest I'm not sure that I cycled my tank. I set it up let it go for about a week then I put six fish in it at one time. I had two elephant nose die on me in a week that is what made me get the test kit and start doing research on fish keeping. Everyone in the family was upset that the "dolphin fish" (my sons name for them) were deadWhen I got the test kit ammonia was about where it is now between 2.0 and 4.0. Tank has been up and running about three months

[Loman]

I am not a chemist but nh3 is ammonia and nh4 is ammonium. There is a significant difference in the level of toxicity. Most of the miracle cures for ammonia convert it to ammonium. Neither is good for the tank.

[Jay]

I'm glad Loman got to this post I had trouble getting on the forum yesterday.

IMO from what you have said I do not think you have a problem only a wrong conclusion.

When test results between tap and tank are "goofy" <- highly technical term Nine times out of ten a factor has not been taken into account or overlooked. In this case ammonia (a nitrogen compound). Without getting seriously technical...You use a dechlor chemical to make your tap water safe, you have been using a chemical agent in the filter to "deal with" ammonia. You have fish and are feeding them, fish waste and the action of bacteria on uneaten food produce ammonia.

All of this nitrogen is being bound up by the filter agent and dechlor agent into Ammonium which is a relatively non toxic form of ammonia BUT STILL IS MEASURED BY YOUR TEST KIT AS AMMONIA.

That is known in the hobby as a false positive.

Oh...I think your Nitrate readings are a little high for a non planted tank. A couple of back to back 25% water changes should help that.

Jay

[caseydtaylor]

I read another post on this forum that said the same thing about th efals reading after I made my post. I do have two small plants but my flagtails have pretty much eaten one, and the other isnt in substrate it is just anchored in my gravel. Do they make kits that test only for NH3?

[Loman]

If I recall correctly most of the test strips pick up only nh3 while most of the liquid reagents pick up both nh3 and nh4. That said the liquid is still the better solutions in most cases. Ammonium is less toxic than ammonia to fish but it is still not good to have in the tank. Also if you use chemicals to neutralize all of the ammonia the natural bacteria never develop so the tank is essentially uncycled. When you leave it for a short period the ammonia will start to build and cause problems

[Jay]

This is always confusing to folks just starting to pay attention to what testing really means.

Ammonia and Ammonium both are equally bio available to bacteria and plants, it's just that the Ammonium is less toxic. Think of it this way...Ammonia will kill or damage cells where ammonium will irritate them.


Jay

[caseydtaylor]

The more I read these forums one thing that comes up alot is people advocating a no chemical maintenance regimen. Between cleaning, bacteria, and water changes the tank should create its own balance and take care of itself. Correct ? What would be a good starting point to try to get rid of the NH (both types) I removed the plants because the flagtails were tearing them apart and they were getting caught in the filter