High Ammonia above 8

Tommy Gun · 07-05-2008, 11:42 PM

Without a doubt, IMO everyone has been providing some very good advice/input here and I agree with Loman's summary. I particularly agree with the notion that your test kit may be giving you false readings for some reason or another simply because the math does not add up; meaning, if you are correct and your tap water does not contain any ammonia and hence, you are not adding ammonia during a water change, a 90% water change should remove 90% of the ammonia. While I am definitely not a physics guru, I believe that it is pretty much a law of nature that ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate would be dispersed evenly throughout the body of water.

With that in mind, as a first step I would strongly suggest getting a second opinion while at the same time, making absolutely sure that you are performing the tests correctly. My thinking here is that validating your test results is going to be relatively painless/quick and you can always move forward from there.

==========

Oooops, sorry to step on ya there...we must have been posting at the same time.

Out of curiousity, what is the pH of your tank water?

tigger2929 · 07-06-2008, 11:15 AM

The ammonia is on the rise again up to 4. and the pH is at 7.4.

tigger2929 · 07-06-2008, 06:17 PM

I took a water sample to the ark again today (their readings were the same as mine in the 8-10 range), they believe that it is the city water. I went and got distilled water and did a change out. I they also think it might be the sand because it is a new brand they just started carrying and am the first to use it.

Tommy Gun · 07-06-2008, 07:06 PM

Keep in mind that distilled water, like any other 'pure' water source (e.g. Reverse Osmosis) do not contain the essential major and minor elements that your fish need to thrive. It is not a bad option so long as you are using a product such as RO right to replace those elements. IME with city water, ammonia has never been a real problem short of chloramines; but this has never resulted in an inability for me to cycle an aquarium. In fact, this is really starting to interest me and so I am wondering if you could take some more time to tell us, in detail, what you did when starting the tank, how you perform water changes and maintain filter media, and any other habits or procedures you have developed in your approach to this aquarium. In short, it is my understanding that most test kits would not pick up ammonium (the less toxic- but I still maintain it is not non-toxic - form of ammonia) or at least not show it in the same way which leads me to believe that your tank is holding a lot of ammonia...yet you say none of your fish are showing any signs of distress at all. Above all else, this is why I have thought your test kit(s) were leading you astray but apparently that is not the case.

tigger2929 · 07-06-2008, 08:31 PM

I went to the ark and they put a package together for me that included the tank, stand, hood/light, sand, filter (305), and heater. I came home and started to rinse the sand while I put the stand and tank in place. I rinsed the sand till there was nothing else came out (oil slick type substance). I inserted the sand into the tank bottom and began to fill with tap water. I inserted the pirate ship and hooked up the airline. The tank is now full with the filter running and heater on. I waited 2 weeks before inserting any fish to let things balance out. Added the 2 sharks and 3 cories to the tank, later that week I added the Bio-starter. The ammonia didn't start to rise until drastically until about 4 weeks ago. I did partial water changes to keep it in line and used Stress Coat at the water changes. Then no matter how much water I changed out the ammonia stayed high. I went back to the ark and had them test the water ans asked for suggestions. They said to do a 80% water change and to add ammonia lock to protect the fish and to add a ammonia bag to help keep it down. This did not work, so I went back to the ark and had them test again. Still the same. They said to change the carbon bags ans ammonia bag and if it remained high after 5 days to do a 90% water change and come back in for another test if the ammonia is high. I went back to the ark today and they said it is the tap water and to use distilled and do a 90% water change with that. They also said to use a light bleach solution to clean all the decorations in the tank and to scrap the tank sides to get rid of the clear slime that had developed. I did all of this today as they instructed. I just tested the water and the ammonia is at 1. The ark also believes that it might be the sand. They have a new distributer and I am the first to use this product. They are going to contact them tomorrow to see if there could be a link to the problem there.

RJRofFL · 07-06-2008, 10:01 PM

Hi tigger,

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I can certainly feel your frustration as I had a doozy of a time cycling my 29 gal, and am coming in sort of like a Mr Spock here to add a little logic to the scenario.

In reading your synopsis here is what I see, and this is what I think.

In the 2 weeks before adding fish no ammonia was added, so that does not count toward cycling time.

If fish have been in 4 weeks, there should be some sign of NitrItes by now, however the amount and quantities of WC have probably removed any. So I am surmising the tank is not cycled yet.

No offense meant toward the Ark, but I find some inconsistencies in what they are telling you. They say it is the city water, but you yourself have tested it and I believe you got a zero reading from it. Also, when you did the 90%, I believe you said it was a .5 to 1.0. Again, playing Mr Spock here, this implies, logically, that it is something in the tank causing this increase. I seriously doubt it is the 5 fish causing it to go that high, especially so soon.

It appears the one constant here, that is the one thing not changed, is the substrate and/or decorations. Since the fish do not appear stressed or show signs of ammonia poisoning (which I'm sure you would have noticed) then the ammo lock is obviously working. No offense, again, but when you say the API kit reads 8, that is a very dark green color isn't it? Not meaning to insult your intelligence, just assuring we are all on same page here.

How about putting some water in a 1 gal container, test it, then put some of your substrate in it, and test it again?
Does that make any sense?

Just a thought.

Bob

tigger2929 · 07-07-2008, 08:18 AM

I tested the water again this morning before work... It is back up to 4. The decorations I bought from Dr. Fosters and Smith (never had an issue with them on anything in the past). I am going to take you suggestion and test the substrate whem I get home tonight, just to try to rule that out too.
Yes, it is the very dark green coloring.

Tommy Gun · 07-07-2008, 09:21 PM

Great idea with the substrate test Bob! I have to be honest though...I am not really sure how a brand new, cleaned substrate could be adding a ton of ammonia unless it is comprised of something organic and even then, I would think that eventually there would be a point where all of the ammonia is spent; with water changes being the mode of export. Perhaps my logic is way off base though.

Another quick question...have you ever tested to see what the pH of your tap water is before adding it to your tank? If so, what were those results?

tigger2929 · 07-07-2008, 09:26 PM

I am testing the sand now, I pulled about 2 cups out and I'm letting it set till tomorrow after work to see if there might be something there. I haven't tested the pH of the tap water yet, but I will do that too.
Thank all of you for the help, I know eventually we will find the answer.

tigger2929 · 07-08-2008, 08:34 PM

I have made some progress!!! I now have a nitrite reading of .5 and an ammonia reading of 4 and I fed the little guy last night!!!! Things are starting to work out.
I tested the sand from the tank/fresh distilled water I let set from last night and it showed trace amount of ammonia, but barely there.