trojannemo

hey guys...no this time it's not one of my tanks. i've had enough already! this is my fiancee's tank. it's a 10G running a 10G tetatech filter and a 20G biowheel filter. air stone, stealth heater 40W 10,000/actinic blue lights.
it's been running for 3+ months and this far it's done well. we did a water change sometime last week or before. last fish added was around 4 or 5 weeks ago.

today she wakes up to very cloudy water...she changes the water, and it's still cloudy. i took a look at it today and there's nothing dead in the tank to cause extra bacteria. ammonia tested at or over 8ppm after water change!!!
nitrites are at 0ppm though.

since we haven't changed anything, added or removed anything, what could have caused this? i would guess it's restarting the cycle or something. it looks like a bad bacteria bloom, but why out of the blue?

my only idea is that with the extreme heat lately, and the fact that her house is not air conditioned (go figure...) could the tank have overheated and it 1) killed off the bacteria 2) made it bloom ?

as i said, there's no dead fish, the only plant is an amazon sword and a small shoot from it that we just planted last week, both of them looked healthy and green (better than mine as a matter of fact). both filters were running fine. the fish were not acting as if something was wrong either...

any ideas? she wants to dump in Cycle but i'm trying to avoid chemicals! help her please

Loman

Not much to really go on here. Was the tank fully cycled with 0 ammonia and nitrites? How often do you test ? Did it jump to 8 ppm ammonia or build up? You obviously need that level down a lot or the fish will die. I would do large 50% or so water changes daily to reduce the number as well as try to figure out the source.

__________________
Loman

24 Gallon Saltwater Aquapod
1 Royal Gramma
1 Blue Devil
1 Bicolor Chromis Lyretail
1 Scooter Blenny
1 Chocolate Chip Star Fish
Crabs and Snails

20 Gallon Freshwater
Swords, Zebra Danio, Neon Tetras, Albino Cat Fish, Plecostomus, snails

10 Gallon QT Saltwater
10 Gallon QT Freshwater (Divided)

trojannemo

my problem is not how to deal with the ammonia, what i'm concerned with is knowing how this happened. the ammonia and nitrites were fine. as i said I changed the water within the last two weeks and the water has been clean since then. the tank is fully cycled and has been for nearly 2 months straight.

for future posters, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST BEFORE THROWING UP ANY MORE ANSWERS!!! thank you kindly

Loman

trojannemo,

Just for the record I did read the original post and re-read it just now. It does not say what the nitrogen readings were prior to the water change, just that the tank was clear. My apologizes for trying to help

The heat is not a likely cause of killing the bacteria since most tanks run warm anyway. A bacteria bloom would likely have no effect or lessen the ammonia since it is bacteria that converts it. Best of luck in fixing the problem, sorry to have bothered you

__________________
Loman

24 Gallon Saltwater Aquapod
1 Royal Gramma
1 Blue Devil
1 Bicolor Chromis Lyretail
1 Scooter Blenny
1 Chocolate Chip Star Fish
Crabs and Snails

20 Gallon Freshwater
Swords, Zebra Danio, Neon Tetras, Albino Cat Fish, Plecostomus, snails

10 Gallon QT Saltwater
10 Gallon QT Freshwater (Divided)

trojannemo

hey man that wasnt aimed at you!
point of that is that as much as people want to help, a lot of times i get people who read the title of the thread and just put in an answer that is obviously not what i'm looking for. what you said was helpful though, don't take it personally....relaxxxxx

Tommy Gun

Hey trojannemo,

No offense or anything but not only do I agree with Loman's request for more help in his first reply, but still feel as though there may be some information missing that you may need to consider. To be honest, it is probably not a good idea to assume that everyone has been following along with all of your threads/story so my advice to you would be to check out the sticky article SM Jay posted entitled "getting help" and follow those suggestions each time you start a thread. With that being said, on to the information that at least I would like to know (and I apologize in advance if missed something in your earlier comments):

1. "Cloudy" could mean a couple of things...it would be good to know if it is greenish-cloudy or milky-cloudy.
2. Where is the aquarium located in your house? For example, near a window?
3. How long do you keep your lights on?
4. What type of substrate are you using?
5. What exactly is your procedure for changing water? Do you use a gravel vacuum?
6. How many and what types of fish do you have in this tank?
7. How much, how often, and what exactly are you feeding your fish?

For now I am going to assume that your tank is a milky-white type of cloudiness and say that it is not entirely odd for this problem to develop over night or within a few hours. It is also VERY important to note that bacteria blooms are not solely tied to cycling an aquarium but instead, can occur whenever the conditions are right. So, I strongly suggest that you keep your mind on the big picture and not focus solely on the ammonia issue as being the absolute cause.

Speaking of ammonia, how long after the water change did you perform the test that showed the elevated levels? It is possible that your test kit is showing ammonia because there are chloramines in your water...which is simply a bonded molecule comprised of ammonia and chlorine. In short, you could be seeing the ammonia levels because you either tested too soon or your dechlor conditioner can only remove chlorine.

Getting back to the cloudy water, in either case (algae and/or bacteria blooms), be aware that the issue is not going to be solved by performing one water change. In general, this is because this type of bacteria and/or single-celled algae can reproduce amazingly quick so even though a water change seems to help by making the water less cloudy, that is unlikely to last for very long. This is not to say that you shouldn't do water changes, but only what you can expect.

FYI - It is also highly unlikely that your current filtration is going to be able to collect the organisms that are clouding the water...with the possible exception of micron filter media (e.g. diatom filters and some media designed for the Magnum line of filters). However, it is my strong opinion that you would be much better off with finding the underlying cause of the bloom and from there, focus on preventing them in the future rather than relying on a filter that may not work completely.

In reality, I believe the type of bacteria that is found in Cycle actually contains the very same bacteria that might be causing the cloudiness. In short, these are the bacteria which provide the nitrogen cycle a big boost by breaking down organic matter into ammonia and as I have read, sometimes into nitrite as well. This is important to understand because these blooms require an abundance of 'fuel' in order to begin; and in this case, you may have an accumulation of uneaten food stuffs, fish wastes, or other detritus for which the bacteria can thrive upon.

To sum all of that up, here are the major points that deal with some of your questions/comments:

• It isn't uncommon for blooms to suddenly appear....in fact, if there were a bunch of obvious warning signs, then I doubt so many people would experience them.
• While they are a very common occurrence when cycling an aquarium, neither bacteria or algae blooms are an indicator that your tank is not cycled anymore
• Technically, the nitrogen cycle is continually restarting (hence the term "cycle") itself and not that it is really pertinent here but interestingly enough, most of us are not letting the nitrogen cycle finish completely in our aquariums

• While water temp can influence how quickly/slowly bacteria can multiply, keep in mind that all other conditions must be met too. For example, it could be the exact right temperature for these bacteria to multiply but the population is still restricted to the amount of food available. Hence, the answer isn't an air conditioner but lies somewhere else. Besides, I am sure quite a few aquarists don't have air conditioning.

trojannemo

alrighty let me try to cover all of that.

she has black pebble substrate, same as i do on my 38G. it's the regular small pebbles from the LFS.
as i said before, the lights are 2x 20W coralife 50/50 10,000k/actinic blue. they are on usually less than 6 hours a day (some days even 2-3 only 'cause she's not at home often and the parents forget)

fish she's got: (iirc)
- 1 baby angel fish ( < 1" in every direction in size) - when it grows it will probably end up in my tank
- 1 flame dwarf gourami
- 1 sick-looking betta she refuses to get rid of - he's been there and like that for about 2 months
- 1 swordtail male platy
- 2 tetras (1 lemon, 1 red/black not sure of the name)
- 1 balloon molly
- 1 african dwarf frog

feeding is a mix of tetra color-enhancing granules and tetra flakes (by that i mean i literally mixed them up in a container!) once a day only and only a pinch so that they consume it within 2 minutes.

the water was milky white and I also noticed it smelled foul. the water in the filters did not and neither did the lamps nor anything else other than the actual water that was inside the aquarium. this past week our city had to close down the beaches because the bacteria levels were too high and my fiancee believes the city had added extra-chlorine to our tap water and she says that could be the cause of the smell? not sure?

the aquarium is placed in the living room right next to a screened window that lets in i'd say about 50-60% of the actual sunlight.

when doing water changes we use a gravel vac. i didnt do it this time so i'm not sure, but we usually just do the gravel cleaning as we fill up two 2g buckets, so about 40% water volume? somewhere around that area.

the water was changed today around noon, tested today around 7:30pm, so it wasn't too soon for testing i think.

i agree on the issue with Cycle and that's exactly why i told her to wait on it. likewise i agree on figuring out the cause, that's the whole point of my post. i've dealt with blooms before, but then i knew why they were happening. this one i dont understand where it's coming from!

with regards to temperature and air conditioning, i mention that because i keep my heater set to 79F and hers is set to 80F. this works fine in my house (we have ac) but in her home, the fish tank is usually at or over 84F simply as a result of the internal temperature of the house! so much so that ghost shrimp always seem to "cook" in her tank. though no fish have died from heat this far


to be honest, considering how the tank has been this far, and knowing it first hand how we deal with it, i can't help but think that someone was upset at her and threw something in the water

show me i'm wrong please!

Jay

.

Tommy I wish we could have more folks understand this.

Just to add to Tommy's remarks. It is entirely possible, and happens frequently, that the heterotrophic bacteria compete with the nitrifying bacteria for colony space. The nitrifying bacteria loose. The trick is to limit the nutrient source feeding the bloom.

Did I miss the list of tank parameters?
pH
KH
GH
NO3
Nitrite

Did I read correctly that there are 40 watts of light over a 10 gallon tank? That sits near a window.

Jay

trojannemo

when i pass by her house tonight i'll do a full test, yesterday she only tested ammonia and nitrite and that's why i only posted those two parameters.
we use API master test kit and i dont think that allows us to test for KH or GH

and yes the lights being used are 40W but 20 of those are actinic blue, which you personally told me back when i first joined here it wouldn't help with a planted tank. also, those lights as i said come on for a very short period of time, usually after the sun has gone down or is about to.

i just spoke with her and she says it looks even worse than yesterday. so changing the water yesterday doesn't seem to have done much, if anything at all...