Water Changed Paramaters Chiclids4ever

Jay · 09-17-2006, 09:41 AM

Hi all!
Sorry I haven't posted in a while, but I have been a bit busy with these fish again!
I am seeing some changes in the numbers when I tested my water today.
Ammonia is 0, Nitrites are 0, but the PH has dropped a bit more to about 6 or 6.4, and the Nitrates seeme to have spiked up to 20 or 40, hard to tell with color cards. Water also appears to have a slight "goldish" tinge to it?
I am concerned.
I haven't made any changes in the way I do things except I have been using the light a lot more to help plant growth.
Also, the water test was done right after a water change, but I never had problems before doing it that way.
What could be going on???
__________________
Joe

Jay · 09-17-2006, 09:46 AM

Hey Joe

I don't know whats going on. We need a KH GH reading.
Is the tap water still at 7.2?

Jay

Cichlids4Ever · 09-17-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Hey Joe

I don't know whats going on. We need a KH GH reading.
Is the tap water still at 7.2?

Jay

Jay,
I do not have the kit needed to test KH or GH. I can't get one here :-(
Tap water is still 7.2, and I also tested the tap water for nitrates and they are at zero.
That "goldish" tinge I spoke of is gone since this mornings water change, but the nitrates and PH scare me.
Maybe something in the filter?
This month I changed the glass wool(pillow stuffing), but left the foam alone. "They"say not to change both at the same time.
I didn't touch the ceramic rings.

Jay · 09-17-2006, 10:43 AM

Don't worry about the nitrates they are not high enough to do any harm.

If the tap water is 7.2 and you do a 50% water change your tank water should be OK unless there is something funky with the KH GH.

Go here --> Aquarium Water Test Kits: Test Strips for Fish Tank Water Testing Bottom Right of Page.

Regards,
Jay

Cichlids4Ever · 09-17-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Don't worry about the nitrates they are not high enough to do any harm.

If the tap water is 7.2 and you do a 50% water change your tank water should be OK unless there is something funky with the KH GH.

Go here --> Aquarium Water Test Kits: Test Strips for Fish Tank Water Testing Bottom Right of Page.

Regards,
Jay

I JUST did a 50% change and the PH was low and the nitrates were high.
I just re-checked, and the nitrates are showing 20, not 40....
I guess I am OK, but I am going to ask my wife to ride into town and get the kits. I just called and they do have them now.
What are normal GH and KH readings, and what can be done to raise or lower them?
If there is something already posted here you can direct me to it. I know you must answer the same questions over and over and I want to avoid that :-)

Jay · 09-17-2006, 01:08 PM

PH KH and GH form a related triangle, some call it the Bermuda Triangle.

Fluctuations in one can cause fluctuations in the other. There really is no normal or standard numbers within reason and common sense. We want to look at the relationship of the three and YOUR tank and circumstances to determine why the pH is depressed.

Nitrate colors are hard to see beyond 20 I suspect they are a little lower than that. Remember the hobby test kit only gets you in the ballpark.

Joe..there is no crisis here, just some funky unexplained readings.

Is your wife going to blame me for the "run into town"

Just a few housekeeping questions..??

What test kit are you using
Are you looking at the yellow pH scale under sunlight or white light.
Are your test vials clean
Are you skimming the top of the water when you test or taking a deeper sample.
Are you using a cap to shake the vial or your finger
Are you using CO2

I know, I know, but I gotta ask

One more thing a pH kit is also only in the ballpark. Let's wait on the other numbers, this whole thing may be a non issue due to test kit inaccuracy.

Jay

Cichlids4Ever · 09-19-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

PH KH and GH form a related triangle, some call it the Bermuda Triangle.

Fluctuations in one can cause fluctuations in the other. There really is no normal or standard numbers within reason and common sense. We want to look at the relationship of the three and YOUR tank and circumstances to determine why the pH is depressed.

Nitrate colors are hard to see beyond 20 I suspect they are a little lower than that. Remember the hobby test kit only gets you in the ballpark.

Joe..there is no crisis here, just some funky unexplained readings.

Is your wife going to blame me for the "run into town"

Just a few housekeeping questions..??

What test kit are you using
Are you looking at the yellow pH scale under sunlight or white light.
Are your test vials clean
Are you skimming the top of the water when you test or taking a deeper sample.
Are you using a cap to shake the vial or your finger
Are you using CO2

I know, I know, but I gotta ask

One more thing a pH kit is also only in the ballpark. Let's wait on the other numbers, this whole thing may be a non issue due to test kit inaccuracy.

Jay

Jay,
My wife loves to ride into town for the day so no worry there :-)
The test kit I am using is from aquarium pharmaceuticals....a basic GH, KH kit.
The test was difficult for me to really read but from what I gather, it took 3 drops of GH solution and 3 drops of KH solution to turn the water to the "desired" "bright" color.
After reading that, it looks like both the GH and KH are 53.7 which is super for cichlids, unless I am totally off base with the readings.
It's confusing because the directions say to count the drops it takes to turn the water "bright" yellow for KH, and "bright" green for GH.
Well, the water turns yellow or green after 2 drops giving me readings of 35.8. If I add another drop the color brightens giving me a reading of 53.7.
Which is it?
I take water from about mid tank when sampling and I always use a cap on the vials when shaking.
Test vials are clean and I look at them under white light.
No CO2 in my tank, just air bubbles :-(

Jay · 09-19-2006, 08:35 PM

My inclination has always been to take the reading that initiates the change, in your case 2 drops.

OK I think I got it!!

A KH of 2 dKH (35.8 ppm) is a little low, it is borderline in its ability to keep your pH where it should be.

Quick Fix: Use 1/2 tsp. an hour of baking soda until the KH is 4 - 5 dKH or 71 - 80 ppm

Your GH is also a little low.

Get a Product called Equilibrium (Made by Seachem) to increase your dGH to about 8 dGH or 150 ppm.

The Equilibrium and Baking Soda probably only need to be used at weekly water change time.

I adjust the GH in my tank weekly by dosing Calcium and Magnesium. Let me know if you want a source for dry chemical to do this, a fraction of the cost of comercial product. (easy to do)

In combination that should stabilize/normalize your pH

A handful of crushed coral in a bag in the filter will help but it takes a while.

I think we have a non (worry) issue here. IMO if you get your KH and GH up a tad all will be well. Clearly no crisis

Jay

Cichlids4Ever · 09-20-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

My inclination has always been to take the reading that initiates the change, in your case 2 drops.

OK I think I got it!!

A KH of 2 dKH (35.8 ppm) is a little low, it is borderline in its ability to keep your pH where it should be.

Quick Fix: Use 1/2 tsp. an hour of baking soda until the KH is 4 - 5 dKH or 71 - 80 ppm

Your GH is also a little low.

Get a Product called Equilibrium (Made by Seachem) to increase your dGH to about 8 dGH or 150 ppm.

The Equilibrium and Baking Soda probably only need to be used at weekly water change time.

I adjust the GH in my tank weekly by dosing Calcium and Magnesium. Let me know if you want a source for dry chemical to do this, a fraction of the cost of comercial product. (easy to do)

In combination that should stabilize/normalize your pH

A handful of crushed coral in a bag in the filter will help but it takes a while.

I think we have a non (worry) issue here. IMO if you get your KH and GH up a tad all will be well. Clearly no crisis

Jay

OK,
Baking soda I know how to use, but please let me know what product to use for GH....Anything that I may possibly have in the house?
Thanks!

Second issue...
This only seems to happen when I do my monthly filter maintenance.
Maybe because my filter setup is different than yours, it is reacting weird?
My filter hangs off the back of the tank. The directions say to put the foam "block" in first, then charcoal, then ammo-carb.

My method is to put the foam first, then some "glass wool", then a bag of ceramic rings. Omit ammo carb.
When I do filter maintenance, I gently remove the rings, discard the wool, gently pour out the water, and replace wool and rings and that's it.
Every other month calls for the foam "block" to be replaced and THAT's when I get cloudy water and water parameter changes.
It seems to upset everything.
Now my tank is super cloudy as if I am starting over....

Jay · 09-20-2006, 10:08 AM

GH adjustment

CaCl2 = Calcium Chloride = Driveway Ice Melt (read the bag to be sure)
CaSO4 = Calcium Sulfate = Plaster of Paris if you do not want Chloride in the tank.

MgSO4 = Magnesium Sulfate = Epsom Salts

These are the two main components of General Hardness GH. Calcium is usually Major and Magnesium Minor in the ratio.

Commercially I like "Equilibrium" by Seachem or Barr's GH Booster available from Greg Watson.

I usually buy all of my chemicals and Nutrients from Greg Watson.

--> Dry Fertilizers

I can walk you through the dosing when you get organized

The filter problem: Is the cloudy Green or White?

IMO and IME you really need to do filter maintenance weekly. My wife's 20 gallon guppy tank absolutely requires weekly attention to the hang on the back filter.

Good Call on the Ammo carb

I have a feeling that the foam block and the cloudy water are related. You have a bag of ceramic rings in the filter so there should be a healthy colony of beneficial bacteria there. Therefore there is no reason not to clean the foam sponge weekly along with changing the Poly filter material. Try that for a few weeks and see if the problem clears up (pun intended

)

Jay