dlee9707

just a suggestion, make an excell spredsheet and take your data down once a day at the same time on that. it will make an excellent chart in the end and make it easier to analyze the data as well as for you to present your findings.

a very good experiment setup. you may even be able to have it published in a fish keeping magazine.

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55 Gallon Tank:
4X yellow lab
Breeding pair of Red Empress
Female OB peacock
S. Fryeri
Syno. Catfish
Blue Batia
Generic Pleco
One Tinfoil Barb (i couldnt get the thing out with a net or anything else, so i guess its there to stay...)

BJP

I'm trying really hard not to speculate and wait for the actual results. Since you brought it up though, I would expect the Bio-Spira if it actually contains the living bacteria they claim it does to finish first since it was dispersed in a liquid state that should scatter it around the tank fully allowing for minnimal colonization at each point initially maximizing the room for growth and availible oxygen at that spot for such.

Gravel tank second. I wanted to spread the gravel out and drop some in the filter for the same reasons I just mentioned above but I feel that in most cases, newbies that find stores willing to give or sell them a little gravel, most likely aren't going to have a color match and will not want to mix different colors into their prechosen scheme. The baggie allows for easy removal later but limits the area of direct contact and the bacteria in question are already attached to those sites near max I'd bet. Some of the gravel will end up in the center of the gravel baggie getting less contact with ammonia and oxygen also. I thought about tossing the baggie in the filter but many people may have filters where that's not an option so I choose the bottom of the tank as a fairly universally acceptible location.

Cycle tank 3rd but by how much if any real difference I'll have to see. My last Cycle seeding project was a flat bust with salt water tanks having the bio-wheels soaked in Cycle overnight in an open container in the fridge and larger than bottle reccomended doses doing nothing to bring the nitrite down or take the ammonia out. I gave up after 45 days or so and chunked in live rock when it became availible.

Of course this is all still speculation. I could end up completely backwards and I'll be surprised if at least one surprise finding doesn't come out of this.

I drew one up free hand for now but at some point everything will get transferred to the computer.

That'll never happen because it's a topic likely to offend at least one, if not two major advertisers. You don't bite the hand that feeds you so you rarely get negative reviews of anything in mags. Even the article Dr Hovanec published in a fish mag he was careful not to name Cycle by name. It's seems in the last six years Hagen has removed all use of the word nitrobacter from their packaging. A part of me actually hopes they've changed the formula and found one that works now that they've been pointed in the right direction by Dr Hovanec. Every Walmart, Petsmart and full line pet store I went in Friday had Cycle on the shelf. That puts it in the hands of thousands every year. For their sake I'd like to find some improvement in the last six years that'll mean they aren't completely wasting their money. In most of the Walmarts it was top shelf, front and center right next to the bottles of EasyBalance.

Jon Cee

Funny you bring this up, as I've been wondering if I could cycle a tank with bait fish... fathead minnows, shiners, or whatever. I have googled it with no results, and was thinking about starting a post on it.

I'm an avid fisherman, and I'm used to keeping my bait around for sometimes weeks in a bucket or an old cooler with just an air stone, and water changes when it looks nasty. My point is these minnows are tough and can handle it (IMO).

Is there a reason that this wouldn't work? The minnows would only be sacrificed when I take them ice fishing with me this winter or I'd give them away to another fisherman. They are about $2.35 for more than a dozen.

I think the source of the minnows are trapped from lakes or streams in the area, so I don't think they would have any diseases.

BJP, I probably have the same 10 gallon tank as you (Wal-mart). It is up and running with the filter, some gravel, some fake plants, and no heater. If someone thinks this will work, I'm game to give it a shot.

I hope I didn't hijack your post!??

Jon

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Two empty tanks waiting for fish...

1. 55 gallon

2. 10 gallon

BJP

The short answer is if you're 100% sure they're disease free then yes since you're going to kill them later anyway wether they're damaged by cycling stresses or not.

In my experience dealing with bait aquired from all the wholesalers in the Virginia area in the 90's, I never found a healthy batch of bait. I was half bait and tackle in the pet store when I opened with an American Rod and Gun wholesale account (parent company of Bass ProShops). I couldn't accurately guess how many thousands of minnows, rosey reds, feeder golds and trout line size comets I brought in never to see a completely healthy batch with the minnows and roseys being the worst. I can't remember the name of the disease that was running rampant in bait fish in the 90's, highly contagious and virtually uncurable. My only hope was to guess how many fish I'd need that week to meet demand, factor in how many I would expect to loose and try to stock only that many at a time to avoid running in the red financially.

BJP

DAY 2

Tanks A, B and C

4 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate

Tank D (yes, the Bio-Spira tank)

Ammonia 4ppm , Nitirite .25ppm, Nitrate 0

BJP

DAY 3

Tanks A, B and C

4 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate

Tank D

Ammonia 4ppm , Nitirite .5ppm, Nitrate 0

BJP

DAY 4

Tanks A, B and C

4 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate

Tank D

Ammonia 4ppm , Nitrite 1ppm, Nitrate 5ppm

Jon Cee

Have you done this?

__________________
Two empty tanks waiting for fish...

1. 55 gallon

2. 10 gallon

BJP

DAY 5

Tanks A, B and C

4 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate

Tank D

Ammonia 4ppm , Nitrite jumped off the high side of the test kits range, Nitrate 5ppm

BJP

Already responded to the inquiry in the reply above with the following time signiture. 01-07-2007, 12:25 AM