Harrystoy

Hi and Hello to all,
Im a newbie here (to the forum) but have had tanks before.
Mostly 10-20 gallons in size and over ten years ago.

So this weekend I was given a 70 Gallon set-up for free (guy was moving and didnt wanna mess with it).

Lots and lots of plants (some of which i donated to LFS for credit).
Thinned out that herd of green to a more pleasant level, few rocks new gravel etc etc.

I'm cylcing the tank now using small amounts of amm. and fish food (no swimmers).

Will start stocking in 3 weeks ( as long as the tests look good) (Chemical)...

I keep seeing referances to CO2 injection/s.........
Could some bodu school this old dog??

Harrystoy

Also, when adding ammonia what determines how much you add to ensure suitable bacteria levels have been established, tank capacity or expected fish capacity ( I would assume the later)

f1oored

The rule for ammonia is typically to start by adding enough to get a 5ppm test result then add that amount each day until you get a nitrite spike. Then cut the amount in half until your ammonia and nitrate readings drop to 0ppm. You are still going to want to add your fish slowly after the cycle is complete.

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72 gallon BF - Cycling
70 lbs of dead rock
25 lbs of dead gravel
0 fish
Ammonia = 5ppm

MikeToo

Dissolving CO2 in the water provides necessary carbon to your plants so they can photosynthesize more effectively.

A couple of months ago I got rid of my artificial plants and have been nursing some live plants along. They've been doing okay, nothing spectacular.

I asked about CO2 at the LFS, and the owner just gave me one of these CO2 setups. She said it was a sample from a salesman and she'd never had time to test it out, and I could have it if I'd report back how I liked it and whether I'd recommend it. It's generates CO2 from yeast/sugar fermentation and comes with a cute little diffuser to dissolve the bubbles.

It's rated for a 40gal tank, and mine's a 90gal - but I have less than a watt per gallon of light, so I just wanted a touch of CO2.

I have to say, I'm pretty impressed so far (two weeks). The plants are definitely stronger and healthier now, and I'm scooping out much less floating plant matter.

I don't know, some day I might beef up my lighting and go for a tank-fed CO2 system with needle valves and solenoids and all that - but for now I'm going to keep this little yeast system going and see how far it will take me.

Mike

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Mike - Colorado
90gal fresh-water planted community tank

Tommy Gun

In order to get the proper amount of ammonia in a tank (5 ppm), the general rule of thumb that I have been told and researched quite a bit over is 5 drops of ammonia for every 10 gallons of water, give or take. However, if this tank has been established before and you are using the same filter and maybe some of the same substrate/decor, you may already have a good bacteria colony in the tank just as would happen if one tried to 'clone' a tank. This is important to keep in mind because you may not be able to keep your tank at 5 ppm of ammonia and so you should NOT try to dose more and more pure ammonia as this can reduce your bacteria at certain levels. I am sure it is not the best for your plants either....

Keeping in mind that I am so far from a plant expert that it is not even funny, I just wanted to point out a couple of things that I have read. The first is that CO2 injections can have an affect on your tank's Ph and so this has to be considered when stocking fish into the water to avoid shocking them. The other thing is that I have read that CO2 should only be used during the day, I believe, since plants do not use it at night time. This again, could have an affect on any fish as far as the Ph shock that could result and/or the levels of dissolved oxygen in the tank.

Still, both of these ideas/info are from some very preliminary research into a planted tank that I have been mulling over in my mind for a couple of months. I would really keep a tab on this thread and see if maybe Jay or someone else who has more experience with planted tank can verify what I said. They are much more knowledgeable and can help a great deal more.

P.S. There is also a planted tank thread in this forum and you may be able to find answers faster by posting in there. I might also ask a moderator to move this question as well so you dont have to start all over again!

P.S.S. WELCOME TO THE FORUM!! It is great to meet you and I look forward to talking to you more in the future!

Jay

The ammonia advice is good. You might want to visit the sticky article on fishless cycling in the freshwater forum.

There is a lot of misleading and poor information about CO2 injection out there. I wish I had more time today to get into it with you.
You might want to poke around in the planted tank forum

Just some basics.

A light source of 1 watt per gallon is not enough to drive photosynthesis or require CO2 injection

CO2 can and will drive your pH down, My pH drops a full point in the first two hours of injection. This causes no harm to the fish whatsoever. The one danger of using CO2 is that the fish will start to get goofy (<- another incredibly technical term at levels aproaching 60 parts per million, and can die at levels above that. The device Mike is using will not produce CO2 anywhere near that level. The lesson here is learn how to measure the CO2

One word of common sense here. If your KH is weak it is possible to have a pH drop over 1 point (CO2 produces carbonic acid). If you use CO2 it is best to maintain a KH of 3-5 dKH.

CO2 and O2 coexist very well, no problems there.

IMO and IME Slight Changes (1 point) in pH are really not harmful to fish at all. Other than disease, it is a rapid change in osmotic conditions that is the cause of most livestock deaths due to shock.

Regards,
Jay

Tommy Gun

Thanks for clarifying things a bit Jay! Like I said, I am only picking up bits and peices of info on planted tanks from reading threads like this one and from the magazines I get each month. It sounds from your explaination, that CO2 does not have too many cons to it as long as there is not too much of it which is really good to know. I read somewhere that it is not good to have to much surface aggitation or airstone action in a planted tank becuase this makes the water have too much O2...is that correct?

As for the lighting issues, would a person need to get a whole new lighting system to raise the wattage per gallon or could just a simple bulb change make enough difference? I have seen the big racks of lightbulbs at most LFS and always wondered how one bulb can be brighter than another if both are used in the same system...????

Jay

Sorry for the delay in posting I have been away for a few days.

No! Think that through...Surface agitation will facilitate O2 dissolving into the water faster, once water reaches the 100% saturation level it will take on no more. The bubbles you see rising from plants "called pearling" is a visible indication that the water is saturated and the O2 is rising to the surface "gassing off" into the atmosphere.

Too much surface agitation in a CO2 injected tank will "gass off" the CO2. That means if your CO2 injection method is inefficient or puny, than the CO2 will not reach and maintain the rock solid levels needed.

Jay