Using Pure Ammonia in New Tank Cycling

Loman

I have an opinion but that is all that it is. I would wait until it was thoroughly mixed with the water which will depend on the flow rate etc. If you have good flow I would take a look at an hour or so after words to see what was going on. Really I am not a very patient person so I would probably take readings every hour for the first few hours just to see if there was any change.

Tommy Gun

I concur. While you may be able to get an ammonia reading instantly, it might not be as accurate as the reading after the ammonia has had time to dispurse throughout the water. My thinking is based upon the memory of how long it takes for food coloring to not only affect all of the water, but how much is becomes dilluted. Obviously you can't really see that will ammonia so I agree with Loman that waiting is probably benificial.

BJP

I would probably check after as little as five minutes or so just to be sure I didn't do something stupid like adding waaaaaayyyy more than I really needed to achieve the ammonia level I wanted. If you know early enough you'll be able to initiate a water change soon enough to hopefully avoid damaging any bacteria present from your transfer, especially the nitrospira.

Then if it appears anywhere close, wait about an hour or so and test again to make sure you're getting an accurate reading.

After that check every 24 hours to make sure you still have ammonia present so you an add more if needed and to become aware of the rising nitrite and nitrate levels. Assuming the bacteria transfer was succesful, you should get nitrite and nitrate readings rapidly and maybe as early as 24 hours after the initial ammonia spike.

I've been away for a while and don't remember where I left it but somewhere on this board is a thread where I left a tank of water with high ammonia and a large airstone running in a closet for several months without ever being able to gas out the ammonia from the water to the atmosphere.
Good luck.

cyberloach72

Thanks for the opinions everyone! Well, I added about 300 drops over the past two days (20ml) and checked it last evening after an hour and it read 4-5ppm. I checked again after 12hrs and it was the same reading. I will check again at 24hrs to see if there was a reduction. If not, I am going to test for nitrite. Stay tuned!

I do have plenty of water circulation with a filter and airstone running and I turned the temp up to the mid 80's.

cyberloach72

My ammonia levels are starting to drop rapidly within 12hrs going from 4-5ppm to .50-.25ppm. I keep adding 10ml of ammonia when it drops this low to try and get it back to the 4-5 range. I went ahead and tested for nitrite and found it to be testing at the midrange level along with nitrates. I thought the nitrite would spike to it's maximum like I read happened to others, but it has not. It was advised to wait until the ammonia level reaches 0ppm after 12hrs before testing for nitrites. Has anyone held to this advise and could that be the reason why it has not spiked?

On another note, i've noticed a thin black residue forming on my decor and gravel. Does anyone know what this is and should it be cleaned off good once the tank has cycled and before new water is put in?

Tommy Gun

Actually, I believe that seeing if ammonia can/will drop to 0 within 12 hours is just a method to confirm that you have enough bacteria to deal with all of the ammonia you are adding. There is nothing irregular about having some ammonia and some nitrite at the same time.

Nitrite spikes can vary and the duration of the spike can also vary.

You are sure that you have pure ammonia?

Does it come off easily? If so, you might just want to rub it off or even use something like a turkey baster to blow it off when you do your big water change before adding fish. If it is algae, then it isn't a big deal.

cyberloach72

Hi there Tommy Gun!

Yes, it's pure ammonia. I did the shake test and it did not bubble up as I was told this is a way to determine if it's pure ammonia.

I examined the black residue closer and it presents with a hairy appearance on the gravel so I guess it is some form of algae. When I brushed it off the centerpiece decor it came off in a dust form and my filter absorbed it. So I guess it's ok.

I must have a sufficent amount of bacteria in the tank now since I keep adding 10ml of ammonia and the level cannot make it back to 4-5ppm. It stays around 2-3ppm within a few hours after and then back down to under 1ppm at 12hrs.

I'll just keep adding the same amount until the ammonia and nitrite levels read 0ppm unless you have another suggestion.

Thanks for the reply!

Tommy Gun

Ok, just so we are both clear...you added 10ml of ammonia to your tank in order to get 5 ppm the very first time or did you have to add more than that? Obviously ppm is a measurement of concentration; meaning we have to add more ammonia to 100 gallons of water to get 5 ppm versus the amount we have to add to 10 gallons of water to get that same 5 ppm.

IMHO, the best bet is to keep trying to maintain that 5 ppm level for as long as possible. So, at first, you might have to add 10ml of ammonia every three days to maintain 5 ppm, but as time goes on and you gain more bacteria, you might wind up having to add 30ml ammonia every day to keep that 5 ppm level (10ml and 30ml are just examples and like I said, would vary from person to person....I am just trying to work in round numbers).

Eventually you will get to the point in which you have 5 ppm ammonia today, but tomorrow have 0 ppm. At this point, you simply add the same amount of ammonia that you added on day one. So....

...if you had to add 300 drops to get 5 ppm when you started, you want to add 300 drops of ammonia on a daily basis, until your tank is cycled and you add fish - who replace the drops as the ammonia source.

Here is why:

• Look at ammonia as being food...only this time you are feeding nitrifying bacteria instead of fish
  • If you stop feeding the bacteria, they die
  • If you reduce the amount of food (ammonia) available, the bacteria population has to shrink
• Look at nitrite as being food as well...only this time you are not providing the food directly, but indirectly
  • Obviously, if you stop providing food, or enough food, to the type of bacteria that eat or oxidize ammonia into nitrite, then less nitrites are being produced
    • If you stop feeding the bacteria which eat/oxidize nitrite, they die
    • If you reduce the amount of ammonia you provide, then a lesser amount of nitrite is being made, so both bacteria populations shrink
  • Many people are stunned after they supposedly cycled his/her tank, but once they add fish, they have ammonia/nitrite problems
    • When you reduce the amount of ammonia in the tank and hence, indirectly reduce the amount of available nitrite, an optical illusion is formed because test results show a decline in both numbers...just like everyone says we want to see

So, the overwhelming theme here is that we have to readjust our thinking about ammonia when fishless cycling in that ammonia becomes our 'friend' versus our fishes' worst enemy. In fact, I think it is easy to argue that we can say that we actually need ammonia in an aquarium; brand new or extremely well established because any serious lag in the supply of ammonia will mean a change in nitrifying bacteria population. If you think about it, even the removal (by death or otherwise) of one fish means less ammonia is being produced and the bacteria colonies are affected (well, in theory anyways).

Make sense? If it helps at all, I think you are definitely on the right track and doing the right thing...you might just need to tweak a couple things.

cyberloach72

What a excellent outline Tommy Gun! Thank you very much!

I can't agree with you more about your suggestions. I have often thought that I was not putting in enough ammonia to keep up with the bacteria population. I assumed that I should just keep adding the same amount (10ml)and not exceed that in fear of overdosing or killing the bacteria. I will experiment with a higher dose. I usually get a good reading about an hour after I add it since I have excellent circulation going. I'll let you know what transpires.

Thanks again!

Tommy Gun

Well, there is a point where you could have too much ammonia in the water, but I am not sure what that point it exactly. I do know that it is not 5 ppm obviously...but keep in mind that you are adding ammonia that is being processed into nitrite and then nitrate so even though you are adding it everyday or whatever, ammonia isn't really accumulating...(although it could, but not in your situation based upon what you are telling us).