NBCGLX

Here's my setup:
29 gal freshwater
Marineland HOT Magnum w/Bio-Wheel Pro 30

I'm not exactly a newbie when it comes to aquariums, having had freshwater and saltwater aquariums and even a gorgeous vivarium. However, I've come across something that I haven't before. I setup a new 29 gallon freshwater tank a while ago. I used ammo-lock and stress coat to condition the water and used Ph-lock to adjust the Ph to 7.0 I then let the water cycle for about 10 minutes and then added some stress-zyme. The water started clouding up by that evening but it was nothing to get worried about. I started to get concerned a couple days later when the water was still very cloudy and there was a fuzzy-looking something on the gravel and the plants. I attributed it to a hasty and probably unthorough washing of the gravel. So, I completely emptied the tank, took all the gravel and plants out and then did a thorough cleaning of everything. I set the tank back up and filled with water. This time the water was clearer, but I'm back to the same symptoms.

Any ideas???

BJP

Too many chemicals. API advises Ammo-lock for water with chloramines and Stress Coat for water with chlorine. I know Stress Coat is loaded with phosphate. All the PH locking substances like Proper PH I've seen also are loaded with phophate. Toss in the combination of substances in Stress zyme which may also contain lots of sodium nitrate if it's attempting to package live bacteria and there should be no doubt about the volume of extras being added to feed a het bloom which is the cloudy stage you're seeing.

The fuzzy could be a number of things but I'd lean towards organics added by the Stress zyme decomposing or all the phosphate, nitrate and who knows what else causing the growth.

There's a pretty good chance you could eliminate at least 3 of the 4 products and still have a great aquarium. Tell us a little more about the untreated water before it goes in the tank and we can get more specific. PH, KH, GH, chlorine, chloramines, phosphate, nitrate? The more we know the more accurate we can get.

NBCGLX

I'll run a thorough test of the tap water and post the results.

This is the first time I've used a product like Stress Zyme and I was wondering if it was causing the incessant cloudiness. What's interesting though, is that the Stress Zyme bottle actually recommends treating the water with the products I have before introducing the Stress Zyme to the water. Any particular thoughts on which product I should eliminate?

BJP

Out of the four I'd start with the Stress Zyme since it's a bacterial additive. If it added bacteria then it's already done everything it needs to. If it didn't, they'll come in on their own.

BJP

A lot of products are like that. They want you to buy as many other products by the same manufacturer as possible. When the problems show up they have even more products as solutions like algae destroyers and water clarifiers and so on. A self feeding cycle of retail enslavement.

NBCGLX

OK, here are the results for the tap water:

pH = 7.8
Nitrites = 0 ppm
Nitrates = 5.0 ppm
Ammonia = .25 ppm

Tommy Gun

NGBGLX,

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with BJP in a lot of things here and also feel that the chemical additions you are using are not all completely needed. I also agree with the fact that many products suggest using a host of other 'sister; products, always made by the same company, which is not even just limited to aquaria. One example would be to read the directions on a bottle of shampoo that you use...I am willing to bet that it suggests using other hair care products made by the same company. This is just a marketing ploy in most situations.

Cloudy water is a common occurrence in a new tank since you basically have just created a brand new ecosystem which has no 'checks and balances' system in place. I do not think it is a major concern to you, especially since it sounds like you do not have any fish in the tank right now. Even if you did have fish in the tank, your worries would rest more so on the ammonia and nitrite levels in the tank regarding the cycling process.

From your tests, it appears that your tank is just starting to cycle. I would do the same tests on your tap water alone and I would bet that you will have some nitrates in there already which 5 ppm is not going to make or break you in my opinion. I might also pick up a phosphate test kit to see if BJP is right about some of those chemicals adding phosphates and driving some sort of algae growth that you are explaining as 'fuzzy' stuff. I am not disagreeing here about a possible phosphate issue, but about three weeks ago, in a pinch, I bought and have been using stress coat water conditioner in my FW tanks and do not have an elevated level of phosphates and what I do have, I cannot attribute solely to the change of products I just did.

I would say that the Ph lock additive you are using is not working well either since you say it is for a Ph of 7.0 and yours is 7.8 right now. IMHO, there is too much emphasis placed on this Ph issue and honestly, I believe that it is much safer and better for you to go with the Ph that occurs naturally and consistently on its own rather than to try and buffer it with a bunch of chemicals. In reality, I feel that the only chemical you really need to depend upon your freshwater tank is a Chloe conditioner like or similar to the stress coat product.

BJP

I think those test numbers were for the untreated tap water Tommy,
not from the tank.

With the ammonia present I'm guessing you have chloramines in your tap water. A little nitrate isn't that unusual in source water. From API's web site about Ammo Lock

It appears that all by itself Ammo-Lock will treat your tap water with the only thing it usually needs which is to make it safe for the fish.

Stress Coat is at best doubling up on all the chemicals needed for that process minus the part that binds the ammonia with the acid to convert it into ammonium making it less toxic until the bacteria have time to consume it. I would drop the Stress Coat and if you've bought into the aloe vera does anything at all to help injured fish then save it for use in hospital or quarantine tanks where injured fish are and the phosphate additions will do no harm.

The PH level is well within the normal ranges most people keep aquarium fish at without altering. I'm sure even here plenty of people have ph readings even higher than that. If you're getting into breeding a softwater species or trying to set up a discus tank you may want a lower ph but then I'd seek cleaner, purer water like RO water or distilled to mix into your own tap to achieve the ph range you want without all the extras. The nitrate just doubles my reasons for wanting a cleaner source before beginning a breeding program and if nitrate is present who knows what other chemicals have already been added to the tap.

NBCGLX

Thanks for your analysis and recommendations. It's been a while since I've had a tank setup, but I've had enough of them that I should've been aware of the chemicals I was adding. I won't hesitate to admit that I bought-in to what the salesman at the supply place was telling me. Darn it, I knew better So, like you said, it appears that Ammo-lock would do it for me and my pH isn't terribly high out of the tap. Any recommendations on the Nitrates, or are they acceptably low?

Tommy Gun

Sorry if I misunderstood where your test results were coming from. I think most of my advice would still stand and again, I agree with BJP here an nearly everything he states.

I would say that the nitrate levels coming out of your tap water are still in a small enough quantity that as long as you are not overstocking your tank and adjust your water change schedule and amounts accordingly, you would be fine by using this water source in an aquarium. The ammonia is most likely, like BJP says, a byproduct of chloramines which have broken apart back into chlorine and ammonia. I feel that if you have no fish in the tank right now, you do not need to worry about the ammonia at all, just the chlorine removal. Ammo lock would just ensure that the ammonia levels in your tank are not toxic to any fish in your tank while it is cycling. Later on, when your tank can remove ammonia from your tank on its own, you would not need to worry very much about it either really but a product like ammo lock could help set your mind at ease if need be.

I also think that your Ph is fine and well within any 'normal guidelines' that would not limit the type of fish you want to keep. If you want to keep discus like BJP points out, I also recently ran into a product made my fluval which is a peat moss that you can add as a permanant addition to your filter and would also lower Ph...probrably much more reliably than any Ph buffers and you could add it and not have to worry about it for awhile. Otherwise, like BJP says, a lot of people will mix RO water or distilled water with tap water to lower Ph.