prgwbtd

Hi, I'm new to the forums but not to keeping fish. I've had fish for about 10 years now - started out with a 10 gallon tank and now have a 35 gallon which I've had for a few years.

Right now I have an algae eater and three tetras (I know I need to get more). The decor in the tank is 10 years old and the gravel is probably 8 years old. Everything is being overrun by algae - it's not out of control but things are my fake castles and signs are turning green. Bascially, I feel like it's time to get some new stuff and I'm thinking about going with a biological tank.

My questions are about changing the tank environment on my fish. What are the advantages of a biological tank vs. a fake environment tank? How more maintenance will it take? How do you clean them? Will my fish go into shock with the change?

I'd like to change my tank to look more like a natural riverbed but still look great in the process. So, if I changed the substrate and all of the decor, how will my fish reacte to that and how should I go about doing that?

If anyone has some advice or experience doing this, please help me out here. Thanks.

gm333

First off welcome to the forum!
Setting up a natural tank is not much harder. The wood will cause your water to become a little softer. Other than that there will not be much difference between the two.
It should not bother your fish, if you are going to take them out just make sure to acclimate them before putting them back in.
The best thing is it will look better, more natural.

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Tommy Gun

I have switched between the biotope type tank and a more whimsical version a couple times myself and find that it isnt really that hard to do at all. The worst part for me has been the changing of a substrate which usually kicks up a whole cloud of stuff I had thought I was getting out of the tank. I once put sand into a full tank and really wish I would have at least done it with half the water out at least. It was basically a big cloudy mess for a week but settled out. If you are looking for a river type tank, I have seen some really nice substrates that are medium sized pebbles in the browns and whites that in my opinion go well with wood and makes the green of plants really 'pop'.

There are also some people on this site with good info and ideas on how to safely put wood into a tank and the same for rocks if you want to save a bit of money and pick some from you backyard or neighborhood. You project sounds like a great candidate for a sort of 'diary' thread as well and it could really help out a lot of people to hear about what you learn and experience throughout this change. I know that in my area, it is basically impossible to get much in the way of natural looking decor and so we are left to hunting down good materials from around our houses and such so if you do the same, it might help to hear all about it.

prgwbtd

Thanks for the tips. It sounds like it's not as big a deal as I thought it would be. Let me ask you this - do you need to take the fish out of the tank while changing substrate? I never take them out while cleaning it.

There's a substrate that I've read about - it's small brown pebbles and it kind of simulates dirt in a way. If I wanted to get some rocks and maybe even some wood from my back yard - I've got plenty - how do I treat it before I put it into the tank? I killed some fish one time by putting some stones in the tank and found out they were releasing some chemicals that killed the fish. I've also read that you should soak wood in water for a week or so before putting in the tank.

Oh - I would love to use sand because I love the look of it. But someone told me it's very hard to clean. What's the opinion on that?

One other question - if I use real plants - do you have to use special nutrients to keep them alive? I've been doing some research but I'm still not exactly clear on some things.

Tommy Gun

Glad to hear that we haven't scared you away from doing your plan!

I am not the plant expert, so I would take all of this with a grain of salt...I believe the dirt-like substrate you are talking about could be the subtstrate that I believe many planted tank owners used called 'florite'. If so, it may be a good option for you but just like with using sand, it has to be cleaned out well...I think. This may be a question for the planted tank thread in this forum, otherwise hopefully Jay or someone else will chime in.

For wood, I belive you are right about soaking it in water to get the tannins out of it that will make your water look like a weak cup of coffee. From my understanding, using harder woods are best and you can weigh them down in a bucket or other vessel full of water and change the water frequently until it remains completely clear. This will not only help to remove the tannins but water log it as well so that it will not float in the tank.

For rocks, there are two basic steps to help ensure that you are not going to run into problems. First, you can collect rocks and test them by pouring a bit of vinegar on them. If the vinegar bubbles up, then the rock will most likely dissolve into your tank over time. If not, then it is generally considered to be safe. Once you have rocks that you feel will be safe, you should clean off any dirt of moss growing on them and boil them in water. This will help to kill off anything that is growing on them that you cannot see with your eye. If you want to save time or put rocks bigger than any pan you have, I have heard that you can also bake them in the oven at a high temperature for about half an hour or so to accomplish the same as boiling them. Obviously, you are not going to want to put any limestone or soft stones in a tank. Many rocks can also affect the Ph in your tank so it may be worth keeping an eye on it so that the Ph doesnt change so quickly that it shocks your fish.

As for taking the fish out of the tank, I think it would be dependant on what you feel is best and how you plan to go about doing things. I have moved tanks a few times and taken out my substrates without removing the fish. I just used a little plastic shovel like the ones my kids used to have in the sand box. The water got really cloudy, which was ok for my because I was putting the fish in a bucket later on anyways. This may be a good excuse to pick yourself up a cheap 10 gallon tank to keep the fish in after you have cycled it or clone it while you make the changes. Later on you can use this tank as a quarenteen tank or hospital tank. I think that you may have some pretty think 'gunk' in your substrate seeing as how it is 8 years old so it may be best to take the fish out before releasing all of that into the water again. It may also pay for you to take out half the water in the tank and keep it in buckets so that when you are done, you can take out the very cloudy water left in the tank, put the cleaner old water back in and refill the tank. It would be like doing a 50% water change then, more or less.

Sand is a topic that I am still looking for advice on myself since I am not 100% sure on how to clean it well enough to not create a huge mess. However, I do know that some people who do not have fish in a tank and add sand, can usually wait it out and just let the water be cloudy from the sediment in the sand and let the filter and time remove it all. I am sure that someone else knows a good method for cleaning sand and so I will be watching this post as well to get some tips. I am sure there is a method that doesnt require a degree in rocket science, so it is a matter of time until I find it!

Hope this helps a bit more! One MAJOR peice of equipment you are going to need is a camera so you can post pictures of your tanks and progress through this change! Ok, not neccessary exactly, but I would love to see what you have!

fernival brainard

[quote=Tommy Gun;7420] I am sure that someone else knows a good method for cleaning sand and so I will be watching this post as well to get some tips. I am sure there is a method that doesnt require a degree in rocket science, so it is a matter of time until I find it!



I had sand, almost 50lbs of it and it was an extremely fine textured white sand....it looked great but my bottom dwelling fish kept it so stirred up that the water looked like milk and when I vacuumed it the water got even worse for several days.

there is no easy way to clean it and the particles are so light weight that no matter what you do they will get stirred up from time to time and it tends to funk up certain filters, I've lost several impellers because of sand eating them up.

It took months but I finally got all of the white sand out and replaced it with a heavier black sand, all without removing the fish. the milky water has finally vanished and the sand is heavy enough that it settles back down fairly quickly.

IMO the best sands are the bigger grains they are easier to maintain and definetly don't cloud up the water like some smaller grain sands will do. but you will suck up alot of sand when you vacuum if not carefull. be sure to keep it so you can add it back into the tank.

I would try to avoid any sand that resembles the consistancy of powdered sugar as I had alot of visual issues and you definetly don't want sand if your using an UGF.

I also bought a horsefaced loach which spends all of his time sucking up sand, eating the stuff on it and shooting it out through his gills....this has helped with the cleaning issues and is very easy to do, just buy, float and release.....the loach will do the rest.

prgwbtd

Thanks for clearing up the sand issues. I did see some black sand at the store and it seemed a bit heavier to me. I would rather use black sand anyway. Since there was a request for pictures, I thought I would post what I have at the moment and see if anyone has suggestions for the remodel. I probably won't be able to start changing anything until after the school semester is over. But here are a few pics of my current setup.

http://thelittletramp.net/images/fish5.JPG

http://thelittletramp.net/images/fish6.JPG

http://thelittletramp.net/imag[/IMG]es/fish2.JPG

http://thelittletramp.net/images/fish7.JPG

ljhannah

I just recently changed from gravel to sand in my 55 gal. cichlid tank. after alot of research i found out that pool filter sand works great for them,it's not to hard to clean just sweep the top with the gravel vac, and this type is heavy enough to settle quickly but small enough for my lil' cichlids to "play" in and they really do enjoy the sand, i don't even mind the holes they dig all over the tank because it's so much fun to watch them. I made the change in less then 2 hours, i did take out about 20 gals of water at first and set aside, so that i had room to work, then after i removed all the gravel i turn the filter on in the tank and cleaned the sand, that gave the water a chance to settle and i vacuumed out alot of gunk from the bottom, I put 50 pounds of sand witch is about 4 inches deep in my tank,then returned the water i set a side and about 20 gals of new water all together less then a 50% water change, and 2 hours of work for 2 people.(had sisters help)and by morning the water looked great!

Tommy Gun

I just did the same thing and everything went as well as ljhannah says. I also have a small tool that has an algea scraper, a scrubby pad, and a shovel on it, of which the shovel works great for picking out larger objects from the sand but the sand falls back through the little slots in it.

I really like the sand now much more than the gravel I used to have!