disaster

somerton16 · 05-25-2008, 04:46 PM

i was doing my routinely maintene on my 10 gallon tank vacuumed the gravel. i changed out a filter pad just one. when i was filling the tank back up i couldnt get my rena canister fitler to start back up?? then all my fish started floating to the top fish were in excellent health b4 i started the WC i didnt get to test the water parameters yet(i'm haveing a party i'll do it later tonight). when i added new water i added some tap water conditioner from API. i took all the fish out and put them in the 55gallon. so far 2 of the neons have gotten eaten by the green severums. down to 3 now. all the other fish seem to be swimming and in good health again does anyone have a clue as what it could be?? i know you are all clueless without the water parameters bt they will be coming later tonight. i'll also be trying to restart the filter tonight also see if that has anything to do with it. what a great time to have a disaster when all the stores will be closed tomorrow. grrrrr

i'll post again tonight thanks

Tommy Gun · 05-25-2008, 05:08 PM

Hmmm....maybe a big change in water temperature? Or perhaps because your 10 gallon is heavily stocked (IMO), even a smaller water change made a relatively large impact in water chemistry such as DOC's and your fish weren't dealing well with the necessary osmotic changes they had to go through????

Unless I am not understanding what you really meant, it sounds like this was a pretty quick change (right or wrong?), in which case, I would think that it had something to do with oxygen levels seeing as how all of your fish moved to the top of the water. Otherwise, perhaps there is something wrong with your water conditioner that caused a problem. I am not familiar with API Tap Water Conditioner itself (seen it, never used it), but I once had a problem with Stress Coat (also made by API, I believe) because it contains aloe and I just dumped it in my tank and walked away. I think what happened was any fish that swam directly into the product as I poured it in had a hard time breathing after wards because of the aloe. Again, I am not sure if what you are using has the same aloe or something else that could have caused a problem though.

Just wanted to give you a couple of thoughts that might bring up some ideas/experiences from others who could help you narrow down the problem and help you avoid it in the future.

somerton16 · 05-25-2008, 09:28 PM

ok the water parameters havent changed al all. nitrate 10 nitrite 0 ph 7.2

TG: when i said they went to the top it was because they floated up there from where they were in the tank. i have an airstone in there so i dont think it would be because of oxygen levels. the water temp was pretty close to that of the tank when i refilled it. when i put the tap water conditioner in i mix it in a gallon water jug then add it. i really dont know what happened but hopefully it was just a freak oof nature that doesnt happen again. once i figure out what happened to the filter i will test the water again and then put the fish back in and see what happenes wish me luck

Tommy Gun · 05-25-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

ok the water parameters havent changed al all. nitrate 10 nitrite 0 ph 7.2

Are you saying that your nitrate levels haven't changed at all since you did the water change and noticed the subsequent problem? If so, something is wrong with that number (10 ppm) should have gone down.

Quote:

i have an air stone in there so i don't think it would be because of oxygen levels

You definitely could be right about that...obviously I am only speculating. However, it is possible that the benefits of an air stone are lost when it is not placed properly in the tank. For example, because it is not the bubbles themselves which add the dissolved oxygen into the water but instead, the water movement they create when they break the surface, having an air stone directly under a filter could reduce that action.

Quote:

hopefully it was just a freak of nature that doesn't happen again

I hope so too!

somerton16 · 05-26-2008, 12:32 AM

i dont know what my nitrate levels were b4 i did the water change. i only check the water paramaters after the water change. to make sure they are in the safe ranges. yes about the airstone, i have it in the corner of the tank and i also have a treasure chest that is conected to the air pump so i am pretty sure im getting enough oxygen exchange. does any one know anything about the rena xp1 canister filter??? i cant get the water syphon started. i have no kinks in the hoses. the impeller is spinning. i dont know what else could be wrong or what else to check. has anyone else ever had this problem with other canister filters or any ideas on what i can do to fix it. its a brand new motor and impeller so i know they are good.

Jay · 05-26-2008, 06:44 AM

How often do you change water and how much?

You said you put "some" API water conditioner in the water. Was it an exact recommended dose.

Sodium Thiosulfate "the main active ingredient in the conditioner" will neutralize chlorine, but as it decomposes especially in the presence of organic matter (you vacuumed the tank) will break down into hydrogen sulfide.
Overdosing water conditioners can cause some nasty chemical reactions in the water.

Quote:

i dont know what my nitrate levels were b4 i did the water change. i only check the water paramaters after the water change. to make sure they are in the safe ranges. yes about the airstone, i have it in the corner of the tank and i also have a treasure chest that is conected to the air pump so i am pretty sure im getting enough oxygen

I'm with Tommy here. I think it was osmotic. Neon Tetras in particular require a mature tank with excellent water quality. A rapid change of high NO3, which also indicates a high level of non measurable DOC can cause osmotic shock.

Also, O2 is difficult to dissolve in water. An air stone helps by agitating the surface of the water where the dissolving takes place. An airstone DOES NOT put O2 rapidly into the water.

Quote:

??? i cant get the water syphon started

I use Renas and have never had that problem. Is the inlet hoses full when you release the lever? Do you let the filter fill before starting it? Is the inlet hose fill cap on tight.

Just some thoughts from me

Regards,
Jay

somerton16 · 05-26-2008, 12:03 PM

jay: i do water changes every sunday on both tanks. on the 10 i usually change out 3-4 gallons

no it was not the recommended dose i out a little less that a half a capful probally around 2 mililiters. which is less than recomended. 5 galllon per gallons of water

as far as the filter. i fill up the inlet hose open the lever and nothing happenes the water does not flow through when i open it so i thoguht there was a clog in the inlet tube so i got a bucket and closed the lever to start the flow and it started flowing perfectly in the bucket. i'm starting to think that there is a vacuum problem in the filter which isnt allowing the water to flow??

somerton16 · 05-26-2008, 08:12 PM

ok as far as the filter goes everything is back to normal now. when i was putting the filter back together i forgot to put one of the trays back in the right way and it was clogging the intake tube so that is fixed now

Tommy Gun · 05-26-2008, 10:00 PM

Well, hopefully you have it figured out then. Like Jay mentioned, I have found out (sometimes the hard way) that overdosing dechlor products can be a big problem but couldn't say much about the product you use since I haven't yet myself.

Anyways, the only other thing I wanted to add - for yours and anyone else's possible benifit - is that 3 or 4 gallons will always sound like a small amount of water, but in relation to a 10 gallon tank, that is 30 or 40%...which leaves a lot of room for changes to occur. If you haven't already, it might be worth testing a little bit of dechlorinated tap water before you put in in your tank so you can compare those results to see if there are any major differences from the water that is already in your aquarium. Of course, if there are, that doesn't mean you can't use the tap water, but only that you might have to adjust your water change tactics. But, hopefully you have it all covered now...although, even though I am at least moderately familiar with water chemistry as it relates to the major aspects of an aquarium, I have had a terrible time keeping neon tetras alive myself.

somerton16 · 05-26-2008, 11:15 PM

thanks tommy that makes a lot of sense now. i;m starting to agree with you that it was the water change was a drastic change and the fish couldnt handle it. i will be changing 2 gallons every week now and when i do the gravel vac i will do 3 gallons to which i will do every 2 weeks. i totally agree that the only way to figure out a solution is to have the problem. i guess i have been pretty lucky so far with keeping neon tetras alive even as a kid well untill now lol. thank you all for helping me figure this out.