toxic ammonia overload

guppiemama

I'm having an ammonia problem with what was a seasoned 55 gal tank. I can't get the ammonia down, nor the PH. I think I changed the water too many times, too frequently after I discovered a slight ammonia problem about 3 weeks ago. Problem is, I forgot to turn the filter back on (canister type) for 3 days after the first change and then panicked and changed it again and again (four time in all) because the ammonia kept reading high.

I've now used Cycle, Amquel, ammo lock, salt, PH down, wardleys 3 in 1 (6.5 PH). The water is clear, I've lost no fish and they appear fine. I also moved half the fish to my other large tank. I've vacuumed the gravel four times, changed the filter media 3 times, used the micron water scrubber twice, taken the filter hoses off and cleaned them, removed and cleaned all the decorative items in the tank. I just dumped most of a small bottle of Cycle in the tank.

I've taken 2 cups of the water from the tank and tested it (high ammonia) and then treated it with a few drops of Amquel and then tested it again and there was no ammonia detected. I did that to determine if the reading really wouldn't change because of the Amquel and it did. The water in the tank tests 4.0 before and after being treated regarless of how long I wait to test. I'm at my wit's end. I can't seem to get the ammonia nor the PH (7.6) down.
I've tested the new water before putting it in the tank-no ammonia. I bought a new ammonia test kit (not nessler's reagent)-same result.

I've been worrying with this every day for 3 weeks and nothing I do seems to make any difference.

Someone please help me!!!

Ruadh

I'm really only spitballin here, but is it possible that by doing so many water and filter media changes, that you have "un-cycled" your tank and need to let it cycle again?

Just a thought from reading other posts over the months that had similar situations.

Rick

RoxiesMom

Back away from the chemicals!

You have cleaned you tank too much. You have disrupted the cycle and will need to let it cycle again.

I would do a 50% water change daily to help keep the ammonia down. Don't vacuum the gravel, clean the decorations or change the filter media. This is where your beneficial bacteria mainly reside.

If you can take some of the gravel or filter media from the larger tank, do so, not alot because you don't want the same to happen to it, but that will help jump start this tank.

Then it's a waiting game while you cycle again.

guppiemama

I'm so grateful for the replies. You have both confirmed what I thought was the problem. I was afraid to do any more partial water changes and that was what I really, really wanted to do. I'm going to do a partial change now, removing the water from the top of the tank without disturbing the gravel. I wish I could take something from the other tank, but it's got black sand instead of gravel, and a different filter system.

I didn't mention in the first post that I had changed the charcoal in the canister with ammocarb twice also. And at one point, overnight, the tank and everything in it developed a biege kind of slime coating. That's when I tore the tank apart and washed everything earlier this week. The tank is now clear. It looks great-its just deadly!

Should I keep trying to get the PH down-I understand that high PH makes the ammonia more toxic.

I also bought more Cycle and Top Fin bacteria supplement which I "believe" I should add with the new water.

I've kept fish for years and have now become afraid to do anything and lost all confidence that I know anything about this hobby. Just tested the water; ammonia's 4.0

OldSchool

This tank is a 55g and you mentioned "your other large tank" but that it is black sand.

You could try taking out some of your black sand, putting it in a big popcorn bowl or something, and putting that into the 55g?

This would bring some of the good bacteria from your other tank and seed the 55g. Maybe take a piece of rock out of the other tank also, if you have lava rock or something with a lot of crevices then that can contain a lot of beneficial bacteria also. You may also want to clean your filter media with the water from the other tank, and then run that filter on your other tank for a day or two, that should seed the filter media with good biological filtration. It will also help compensate for the additional load of ammonia produced by the fish you moved into the other tank.

orb4me

I agree with above posts

Why do you want to bring the ph down? mine is 8.4 and does well. changing the ph can cause a lot of problems. its very hard to change the ph and then keep it like that for the future. I suggest you leave the ph alone. I have not heard of uncyled, I learn something new every time I visit the great site

OldSchool

There are many reasons for bringing down the PH, the biggest is that fish can handle more ammonia if the PH is lower. The reasoning behind this is that most ammonia test kits test the TOTAL amount of ammonia in the system(Both Free(gaseous) Ammonia and Ammonium (Ionized Ammonia). Ammonium is not harmful to fish. It is also chemically impossible for Free Ammonia (the harmful type) to be present in water below 7.0 PH. I don't have degree's in chemistry, but the aquatic experts that do have degree's in chemistry are the ones who claim this.

This is the reason why the Ammonia is not as harmful to your fish, and the toxic level of ammonia is much higher as your PH drops.

If someone has a huge ammonia spike, then a drop in PH will allow there fish to live.

Another reason for lower PH would be if they have fish like Discus. These require low PH. I am currently in the process of lowering my PH with Peat in order to get ready for Discus.

Most community fish do not do well with PH of 8.4, African Chiclids love it though!

Loman

There are a couple schools of thought around the pH. You are correct in the impact of a high pH. Sofar in the discussion thee has been no discussion of alkalinity or buffering. I often advise people not to focus so much on pH becuase they tend to take a very stable buffered system and destabalise it to drop the pH which happens but also makes it to where the pH swings wildly. IMO the high swings of pH is probably worse than any reaonable level. If you take the appropriate steps to alter the pH and create an environment where the buffering stays in place then a lower pH is often desired.

guppiemama

All of you have been so helpful. I can't believe I just found this forum!
I'm going to take some of the black sand and put it in a sack made of doubled layers of pany hose to put it in the other tank. I was reluctant to do this because I've got those small burrowing snails in the black sand tank and don't want them in the gravel tank-they're both 55 gal tanks. In reading some of the posts it appears these snails aren't so bad to have in a sand tank. The loaches do keep them managable.

After the partial water change this morning the ammonia's 2.0 and holding. I added stresszyme for more bacteria and tossed in some salt for good measure. Just gave the tank another 1tsp dose of PH down (1 treatment per day so I don't shock the fish.)

I also tested the water hardness today for the first time EVER-it's over 270 ppm. I have house tap water softened with potasium so every water change has involved schlepping five or six 3 gallon buckets from the outside spiggot that has unsoftened water-a genuine pain in the a--. Tested the softened water too and it's 50ppm-too low. Now I'm thinking of maybe mixing the hard and soft water, but maybe I better wait until I've got the current problem under control-anyone with any thoughts on this? The "experts" at Petsmart told me softened water will kill my fish-I've always been somewhat sceptical of their free advise.

somerton16

i agree with old skool switch your filters for a couple days. put filter a on tank b and vice versa that way the benifical bacteria can transfer to the problem tank and just wait it out. i'm not big on useing chemicals so i think that would be the best and easiest way to solve your problem. after about a week or so you will see a significant drop in the ammonium. are you useing the same filters on both tanks. if your are then there would be no need to switch them back after your done.