Nitrite/Nitrate

courtnee

I am stressing as much as the fish! *sigh*

A little history. Sorry so long but want to give as much information as possible.

Before I knew anything of what I was doing. I bought 1 gold snail and 1 small goldfish for my 6yr old daughter. I threw them in a one gallon tank. I realized that the goldfish (Gitmo) could and would grow large. I realized Gary the snail would grow too. I bought a 10 gallon tank. Figure we are going to do this right. I also wanted to buy a second Goldfish and figure as they grow I would just upgrade to a good 55gl tank or so for them in a year or so if I could manage a 10 gallon tank.

Our 10gl has a 10-15gl filter, no gravel filter, a two way air pump. I have about a 6 inch airstone along the back, a ship with a airline going to it. I let the tank run over 24hrs before I put Gitmo and Gary in it. I keep the temp at about 75F as naturally that is the temp that remains pretty constant in my apartment. I realize it is on the high end for the cool water loving Goldfish and on the lower end for the more warmer water loving snail. I asked many places and they said this is a good healthy balance of temp for the goldfish and snail but not to run higher then this.

It has been 3 weeks. Gitmo and Gary where thriving very well. Gitmo has grown some and Gary is just growing like a weed. He went from dime size to quarter size. Both are very active and seem happy. Gitmo hangs around mid tank level and lays on the bottom when resting "lights out" time. When I turn the light on he races around the tank and seems to enjoy himself through out the day. He eats well. He does hang out at the top of the tank but not that much. Mid level mainly.

Gary hides all over the tank and moves around a lot. He is a crazy thing to watch. I bought him some alge waffers as I know the new tank has no alge for him to eat. I was told to throw a whole waffer in once a week for him, and also suggested by yet another place to only give him tiny pieces if he would do well with that so that I didn't have left overs rotting in my gravel. I felt the small pieces were a better choice since I have a goldfish in there and they give off enough waste. I throw a small piece of waffer in the tank every 2 days. Gary will go right to it within minutes and eats very well. He doesn't leave any left over. He is growing so I know he is not starving and this "balance" seems to work for us.

I feed Gitmo in the morning just a few flakes and see if he eats them all. I am making sure not to have a waste of fishfood to add to the waste in the water.

The tank has been going for about 3 weeks now. I bought a second small goldfish and put him in there who is now Bubbles. Bubbles is very active and he is doing very well now 2 days into the tank. Gitmo and Bubbles chase each other but they do not pick on each other etc.

After reading more on this adventure I saw how important it is to test the water and that I am coming into a spike area as the tank is getting in the area of getting ready to cycle.

All areas are good except the nitrate/nitrite area. Nitrate: 20 to 40 and Nitrite: 3.0. The water is ranging hard to very hard. The rest such as alk/ph are in good places 40 to 80 and 6.8 to 7.2

I changed 20% water from the top only waited two days and changed 20% more. I did test my tap water and the readings all come out great. No nitrate or nitrite readings straight from tap. I know my tap isnt adding to the problem.

I called a few places and the first place said to just let it cycle. A day or so later the reading was going up more. I added some Cycle to the tank yesterday. The nitrite is freaking me out.

I did more reading. Some say aq. salt is a good way to bring down nitrite levels but that Goldfish are not that fond of salt.

I tested today as the Goldfish are still active and eating but seem to moving their mouths a lot more. The nitrite level was 10.0. I know test strips are not the best but the water does have a smell that is getting stronger. I know the levels are up there.

I know that it is natural for these to spike before they drop but this is to high!

Today I couldn't take it and did another 20% water change. I just had to do SOMETHING to dilute it as I get some advise.

That beings me here.

How do I make it through this period?

More water changes?
Let it just do it's own thing?
Add salt?

Is there any way I can get that level down?

Thanks in advance!

Tommy Gun

Courtnee,

I think you can calm down a little bit here since you will always have some level of nitrate in the tank and anything in the range of 3.0 or less is acceptable even in an established tank. You are doing much more for your goldfish than most people would so you can feel good about that. Moving them into a 55 gallon tank when they get larger is a good idea. Your goldfish are most likely going to be long lived if you keep track of things they way you are now.

I have not heard about the use of aquarium salt for dropping nitrates and my opinion is really that a quick fix is only going to delay the cycle in your tank. The best option for you to do is to keep testing your water so that you know exactly what is going on. When I am leery about my tanks water quality, I tend to test every other day or so. This would be especially important in a smaller tank such as a 10 gallon tank because water quality can change more quickly than with larger volumes of water.

If your notice especially high levels of ammonia or nitrites, your best bet will be to do a large water change; probrably in the range of 40 to 50 percent of the water. This will help reduce the levels of these chemicals in order to hopefully keep them from becoming overly toxic to your fish.

However, doing large water changes also hurts your tank's ability to establish a good bacteria colony. My suggestion for you is to do the water changes anyways, and while adding your water (conditioned with a dechlorinator) also add a product that will help add bacteria to your tank such as "Cycle" or Bact-Seed (and its sister product Bact-Feed). This will help you replenish the bacteria you need for your tank to deal with these chemicals on its own between water changes.

As for doing your 'normal' water changes in the future, knowing that your goldfish are high waste producers, I would suggest doing about 15 to 20 percent water changes weekly. I like to and would suggest setting a spacific time and day to do water changes. I do this so that I am not likely to delay the maintenance and I schedule it so that my kids are around and can help/learn from the process.

So, I think you can pat yourself on the back a bit for doing such a good job and taking into account all of your fishes' needs. Keep up with the water tests until you are confident that your water is going to hold up its end of the bargain. Then you can relax a little and test less frequently.

My only question/concern for your situation is the temperature needs for snails and goldfish. I realize that goldfish are going to be cold water fish, but I am not sure about the temp needs of the snail. I have kept apple snails before and they are definately less active when the water is colder. Since I am not sure about this though, I cannot say what is best. Just wanted to bring it up though in case it is an issue.

Good Luck!

Loman

Coutrnee

Welcome to the forum

FIrst off I agree with Tommy in that the gold fish are really harding and can endure many water issues. That said I also think you are correct to worry about the Nitrites. Anything between 1.0 and 3.0 prodces stress for the fish. A nitrite level of 10 is considerd toxic. I would do frequent and large water changes. I am not so sure the chemicals will help speed the cycle along but they probably will not hurt either. I have not personally used it but you may want to look at Amequel + . It is supposed to netralize the nitrites somewhat. I think the real key will be lare frequent water changes until the cycle completete.

Jay

Hi courtnee Welcome to the forum!!

It looks like your tank is in mid cycle. You might want to read the sticky article on the cycling process in the Freshwater sub forum. The spikes you are seeing are normal.

SALT: Adding salt to your tank will help with the "Stress" induced by elevated nitrites it will not detox them. 1 tsp. per 5 gallons. Table salt is OK to use. Goldfish are tough.

Doing water changes will not slow down or harm the development of bacteria colonies, especially the bacteria which deal with ammonia and nitrite. The bacteria do not live in the water column, they are firmly attached to everything, gravel, glass, fake plants, etc.

Relax with the Nitrates, they are really not very toxic until you get to extremely elevated levels. 30 to 40 in the tank are not a problem, all of my tanks run at 30 ppm routinely with absolutely no issues.

In a non planted tank you should shoot for 10 ppm. This is a good tool for
determining how much water to change at water change time. Elevated Nitrate levels above 10 (in a non planted tank) also indicate that other pollutants you cannot measure are increasing (these are called dissolved organic compounds DOC) resetting your tank to 10 ppm or below also resets the amount of unwanted DOC. You can have the fun of figuring out how much to change.

I agree with Loman, you are well into the cycle.

Regards,
Jay

courtnee

Thanks so much for the replies!! I have two gallons of fresh water with chlor out in them sitting on the counter so they will be room temp and ready to go for the next water change.


I do see where when I added Cycle to the tank that I got a huge jump. I talked to a guy tonight about it and he said that is expected because of adding the Cycle and it probably kicked it up faster and why I saw that larger spike. So far it seems many including here think we are getting over the hump and on our way to a better balanced tank.

Also on the snail vs goldfish. Yes I did worry about that knowing Gary needed above 72 and the Goldfish need 72 below or so. I talked to several places that sell large tanks and deal with fish. I told them I am running at a constant 75F as that is what my apartment naturally sits at. I wanted a happy medium. They all said that is perfectly fine. Not to hot for the Goldfish and not to cool for the snail.

Gary is VERY active. He is cruising all over the tank. He moves all over and switches spots. We often watch him crawl around as well. We have a small bridge in the tank and Gary likes to go over it even LOL. He is thriving very well. He is growing so fast and just looks healthy.

I figure I am doing something right!

Thank you so much!

Tommy Gun

First, let me appologize for misreading the nitrite level. For some reason I was thinking .3 and not just plain 3. This is why my 'dont worry' opinion is skewed.

However, yes, you should not worry too much, LOL. You are on the right track. I will bow out gracefully now and work on my 'reading for dummies' tutorial I have just recieved in the mail!

Loman

IMO this was the most alarming reading supplied. I do not want to create worry but if the Nitrates are this high and stay there it will not be good. I expect it was the peak and they have started down considerably by now. Nitrites (as opposed to Nitrates) really need to be 0. Above .5 they induce stress. Above 5.0 is considered toxic from what I see on the test strip. The one nice thing is gold fish are really very hardy and can live through a lot. Do you know what the current levels are and especially if the Nitrite level has dropped yet?

courtnee

Okay update

I last posted the 13th Nitrates and Nitrites were very high.

14th-16th No feeding the snail or the Goldfish. I let them go a few days as the water was getting pretty toxic. I talked to a fish guy and he said they can at most a week but to not feed them a few days to add to the waste in the water. 20% water change on the 15th I think it was.

This morning I did a SMALL feeding for the Goldfish and will do the snail later.

Bad news.... yesterday the 17th I did a 50% water change the Nitrites were still at 10.0 Bubbles seemed to be a little "off" and this morning we came home and he was stuck to the filter dead. I expected it.

Gitmo is still okay and darting around the tank but I know his life is at risk right now too. He is probably next. *sigh*

Good news is testing this morning Nitrates are in the safe range, bad news is the Nitrites are still high. Alk is low and the water is very hard.

I am at a loss. How long does this take???? It was bad enough losing Bubbles and my daughter was pretty upset. Losing Gitmo I think would really hurt her. she has had him the longest and just adores him. He did eat the few flakes I gave him this morning. I gave him one at a time to make sure he ate them.

Gary the snail status I am not sure. I think he is okay. He is in the neon cave this morning. He has been active this week and not acting unusual but I know that doesnt mean much. Only time will tell today if he comes out.

I have two more gallons of treated water sitting out now getting to room temp. to prepare for another water change in a few days if we make it to that.

I have a gallon tank I can put Gitmo and Gary in. It would be cramped but could give them an escape from the toxic tank. Should I move them into it until this tank cycles? Keep a close eye on the gallon and change the water often to keep it at good levels for them until this 10 gallon cycles? Would this just stress them more putting them back into a very small tank compared to their 10 gallon freedom they have now?

Should I do another water change today after a 50% yesterday just to dilute it more today? Is that to much stress on Gitmo and Gary?

Should I go for the salt today instead to help them breathe better?

I am at a loss what to do next! I know we have to ride this out but I want to do everything I can to get Gitmo and Gary through this. Losing Bubbles was enough.

I told my daughter when the tank cycles and the water is good water for them we would get another Goldfish.

courtnee

Okay. update again.

I just had to do something. Gitmo seemed stressed out the more I watched him the more I stressed. he isnt himself. I had to make a choice. Either watch him die or do something. I put fresh water in the 1 gallon tank and stuck him in there. He needs some water he can breathe in. Water that is safe. *sigh* At first when I put him in there he sunk to the bottom and I freaked out. He didnt move. He was shocked I think but is now swimming around at least. There was a slight water temp diff but I put him in a ziplock bag and let him get use to the new water for 15minutes sitting on top.

Okay now Gary is moving so he is hanging in there too. I am thinking of moving him to the 1 gallon with Gitmo. I know it is a tight fit and not a good home for them. However it is at least safe. I can check the water everyday with them in there until this 10 gallon cycles. I can at least know their water is safe.

Loman

courtnee,
Sorry to hear about loosing bubbles. Especially with children that can be difficult. I think if you watch the gallon container relatively close that you can put 1 gold fish and a snail in it. It sounds like it is better than the environment they are in now. I was getting a bit lost in the different posts. What are the tank parameters in the 10 gallon now?