Sukai

Just to be safe today I bought an ammonia tester. It is a quick dip test and I know they are not as accurate but they are better than nothing. I tested my tank and the test told me I have an ammonia level of .5ppm. My tank is well cycled (has been for about 8 months) granted I have 2 koi in there that are under 5 inches long but even the "koi experts" say it is fine to have more fish in my tank.

It is a 50 gallon uniquarium and I am wondering if the all in one filtration is sufficient. I do a 25% water change about every week. and I never let the nitrite get above 40ppm.

hmmmmm

I just did a 35% water change and still the same .5ppm from the test.

I tested my tap water.... .5ppm

???

I Have some empty filtration space in the back of my tank, about 2 gallons. If I put bioballs in that space would it help?

Thanks in advance!

BJP

A koi "experts" telling you two koi in a tank two fantail goldfish would adequately fill as they grow has room for more fish? I'd like to see one of these genuises try squeezing my 4 year olds already well over 2 foot long into something that small. I guess they're suppossed to fold in half to turn around, swim less than one full body length, fold in half again to turn back around, swim less than one full body length back for the rest of their lives while hoping the other koi stays out of the way. I'm sure the tank could use a few more fish. You weren't planning on feeding them in a volume of water that small anyway.

Being generous I would say you have about six months before you start to stunt their growth and lifespan. Add some more fish and you bring it up sooner.

I've yet to find any discrepency on new dip tests accuracy other than that they also test for ammonium which gets added to the total and doesn't show up on some liquid test kits. That particular piece of information is important for various reasons including letting you know that the bacteria aren't established enough to remove it from the tank if it's showing up or that a chemical additive is masking a problem that needs to be addressed.

If you're getting an ammonia/ammonium reading from tap , then you need to investigate further. If you have municipal water then you probably have chloramines coming in that need an actual dechlorinater to break the chlorine/ammonia bond so that the bacteria can remove them from the tank. If you have a well and get an ammonia/ammonium reading then you have a contamination issue that needs to be addressed for your own health as much as the fish.

Extra bio media isn't going to help if it's chloramines being left untreated. If it's a well then they should help eventually once they have time to establish bacteria but that leaves the source unaccounted for.

If you aren't sure it's chloramines, test with a chlorine test kit. They're availible at most places that sell swimming pool supplies. You can also call and ask the people you're sending money to to pay for the water if that's the case. They have to tell you what's in the water you're buying.

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Crazy80

I would try a liquid test kit to make sure that you are getting a more accurate reading before making to many changes to you water or filtration.

BJP

Then what? Let the fish keep swimming around in chloramine filled water while we blindly believe the dip test was wrong because our liquid kit didn't test for ammonium?

How many different brands and styles of test kit for ammonia and ammonium have you purchased and compared? I've already got one thread here directly comparing five different ones. If you haven't then you're blindly parroting someone elses bad advice.

How many companys do you really believe are going to stay in business selling test kits that give false readings straight out of the box? Storage issues later on fall into user created discrepencys beyond a companys control.

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Crazy80

Im not saying to ignore the test strips Im just saying if you get the same reading from multiple sources of water that you should try a different test kit if you still get the same reading then make changes accordingly. You should never "blindly" ignore any readings but it is always good to have a second opinion. another option is to take a sample of your water to your LFS and have them test it for you.
This is not "paroting" someone else's bad advice. Oh and check the expiration date on the test kit

Andyoybna

Well, she said that she just bought the kit today, expiration would definately be a stretch. Anyways, seeing a .5ppm ammonia level may just be closer to trace than the .5 ppm, either way, it probably isn't enough to do much damage in the short term, but in the long run may shorten the life span of the fish slightly, which in koi is over 20 years...

Anyways, carp in general are messy fish, so it is possible there is just a delay in the bacteria converting the ammonia to nitrate, also I assume when you said nitrite, you meant nitrate. Do you have a testible, or trace level of nitrite as well?

Anyways, I believe that the above mentioned may be a stretch as well, since your tank has been set up for 8 months, it should be well cycled, and should be able to take a pretty good bio load, which is the point where I have to agree with BJP, in that the test strip is picking up the chloramines, which needs to be dealt with as well. I can also see some logic behind getting a liquid test to differentiate between ammonium, and ammonia, to see if it is actually an issue with the biological filtration, or if it is in fact the chloramines, however. I guess she could bring water to get it tested at her LFS, but.... then why did she buy test strips in the first place?

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Sukai

All the water I have tested says .5ppm ammonia. I have been using jungle quick dip tests for a while (the nitrite, nitrate etc and they work well for what they and comparative tests have been done so I assumed the same brands ammonia tester would live up to the quality of its other product (you know what they say about assumptions)

"A koi "experts" telling you two koi in a tank two fantail goldfish would adequately fill as they grow has room for more fish? I'd like to see one of these genuises try squeezing my 4 year olds already well over 2 foot long into something that small. I guess they're suppossed to fold in half to turn around, swim less than one full body length, fold in half again to turn back around, swim less than one full body length back for the rest of their lives while hoping the other koi stays out of the way. I'm sure the tank could use a few more fish. You weren't planning on feeding them in a volume of water that small anyway."


To clear it up my tank is fine for the size my koi are now. They get very specific on stocking limit by size. They have been breeding and dealing koi for over 10 years & built all their own filtration, they are by no means petco (I have too many stories about petco!) My tank has very few fish in it and is running half capacity if you want to get technical. There is no way my koi are going to be in there 6 more months. They are getting built a gorgeous 3,000 gallon pond! I'm so excited! I'm sure if they knew they would be too! right now one is about 4 3/4 inches and the other is about 5.

Where is the thread about comparing different testing equipment? I would like to have something at least somewhat accurate so I can properly car for my fish.

Thanks for all the replies guys, sorry I started a bit of drama

Italian Radio

well, I used Amquel + for Ammonia, Chlorine, and Chloromines. It works great for short term fixes. I noticed that when I do a media change, my ammonia goes up for a while. So I added a maintainence dose of Cycle and now my levels have evened out.

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10 Gallon-2 Moors (Sammy Davis Jr. & Dean Martin)

20 gallon- empty

Thoughts are developing on a FOWLR tank soon.

BJP

I'm glad you provided more informtion. I just spent a gorgous evening watching the koi in my pond while feeling bad that the 3 of them are even in a pond this small. It's only 8' by 8' by 4 feet deep, under 2,000 gallons of water. At least the continual flow keeps the water quality in check. I need to get out in the yard and figure out a place to squeeze in something in the 20 to 30 feet range to give them some room for excercise that's out of the way of the future house. If I could figure out a way to safely net off a portion of the lakes shoreline I could get up closer to the 100 feet range.

http://www.fishtankforums.com/15-eve...t-water-2.html (Boiling ammonia out of water and other kitchen adventures)


That's another product I need to put through a series of tests to find out what it's actually doing. The chloramine part is simple. Any dechlorinater can break the chlorine/ammonia bond which if a large pond is being considered then cheaper dechlorination options need to be explored like the one drop per gallon or one drop per two gallon variety. The original Amquel just dechlorinated and added the acid that converted ammonia into ammonium making it not show up on some test kits that didn't test for ammonium. Amquel Plus for some reason does something to sequester nitrite and nitrate as well. That may be causing the discrepency in your test results through chemical reactions or at least slowing down the bacterial development by keeping food away from them. I believe there was a warning about the product enterfering with a specific type of test kit in the literature. Ammo-lock and other ammonium producers also enterferes with the Nessler style liquid test kit. That one appears to be off the market though at least in individual purchase packages. I haven't checked the multikits to see if it's still included there and I suspect the Nessler chemical mix or a close variation is being used in API's dip test.

It sounds like you're already running at capacity if 25% weekly water changes are just keeping the nitrate below 40ppm. It sounds like the filtration is functioning fine for what it's being asked to do. It can't remove chloramines but it's removing ammonia that is free fast enough to keep you pushing 40ppm. I would consider increasing the volume to closer to 50% for now or doublng the frequency of the cleanings to take the edge off. It's only going to accumulate faster as they grow and koi in an indoor aquarium should put on size even faster than those outdoors until they max out their space and water quality. There's no winter or cold period indoors to slow them down.

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Sukai

Thanks for all the advice!

I have Prime which I use to remove the chlorine. I test the chlorine water I am about to put in the tank before I treat it and after. It works great for chlorine but on the front it says it also removes chloramine and ammonia. I think its a lot like Amquel although I have never used amquel. One cap full does its job on 50 gallons and it wouldn't take more than 2 containers of this stuff to treat my pond. Although if you mist or spray the water into the pond most of the chlorine will evaporate out of it and if you are filling it for the first time I think it is a more natural approach. Speaking of which here is a rough (very) drawing of what the pond is projected to look like (note my fantastic artistic abilities hahaha) We are thinking of extending the pond along the west side where the light green line is, that would bring the bottom pond to well over 4,000 gallons. There will be no fish in the top pond or the 2 shallow streams. They serve as a vegetable and natural biological filter (although I will have a regular biological filter as well) the running water/waterfalls will also airate the water for them. The black lines are waterfalls btw. One change we did make though is that all the filtration is going to be level the the bottom pond. Any suggestions?