Can't lower ph

jmbarr

Re: PH of replacement water
Hello I am new to your forum. I have been running a fresh water aquarium for about 7 years. I just recently upgraded from a 30 gallon to a 55 gallon and gave the 30 gallon tank to my mother in law. She had a 10 gallon with 4 to 6 gold fish between 1" to 4" in size along with a 3" plasetomise ( spelling ?). When we set up the 30 gallon and transfered the fish to it all of the fish died within a couple of weeks.
The tank has about 1 1/2" of gravel in the bottom, one live plant, a few fake plants and some rocks that had been in my tank for years.
We determined that she had way over feed the fish and through the ph, nitrite and nitrate levels up through the roof. I have been able to lower the nitrite and nitrate levels to were they should be but can't get the ph level down.

ph is 7.8 to8.4
kh is above 180
gh is 150
nitrite is 0
nitrate is 0

the ph, gh, and kh levels are high in her tap water they are
ph 7.8
kh 180
gh 150

I have read your posts on ph levels and still have some questions. you talk about using baking soda to change the kh of the tank would this help with lowering the ph?

Shouldn't I be able to lower the ph in the tank to neutral with chemicals even with the ph being high in her tap water?

I have used Tetras NitraBan which is suposed to balance the ph level as well as lowering the nitrate and nitrite levels. It worked great on the nitrite and nitrate levels but hasn't done any thing for the ph.

the tank also has a 12" air stone, 40 gallon filter ( sorry don't remember the brand), and heater. she curently has no fish in the tank because we want to get the levels correct before adding any more Gold fish.

Any help ypu can offer will be greatly appresiated.

By the way I have tropicals in my 55 Gal.

BJP

No

Maybe with enough addition and time but there's really no point in it. Goldfish like hard alkaline water just fine and changing would lead to many headaches later trying to keep it stable during water changes and stressing the fish out at the same time.

Sarah84

Hi Jimbarr! Welcome to FTF!
Personally, I keep guppies, mollies, corydoras, ottos, and kuhlie loaches.. in an 8 - 8.2 ish ph out of the tap, and have had very little problems with keeping tropical fish in there, however with that said, i've had trouble wiht keeping tetras, but it could be a inbred bad quality of speices problem, rather than a ph problem, you just need to acclimate them slowler than normal. I stick with the higher PH because if your altering the ph you have to alter it every time you add water..... which personally too much work for me! You could also put a peice of dirft wood (you need to do a lil research) certian types of driftwood have tannins, which lower the PH naturally.
Hopes that helps a bit

sarah

Tommy Gun

Let me help you a little bit more since it seems like BJP may have been a little short on time when he replied....which is understandable of course.

I agree with BJP in that adding baking soda will not help you lower the pH of this tank and in fact, would only serve to make changes in pH harder to accomplish....which is really a good thing in nearly any case.

Again, agreeing with BJP here, you might be able to change the pH in your tank with chemicals....however, it may take a lot more than you probably think right now; not only because the pH is relatively far from being neutral but also because these chemicals are never permanent and you might find yourself becoming a 'slave' to these sorts of products. Also, from what I have read and heard about them, these chemical pH buffers can 'wear off' pretty quickly which means the pH would rise again and could shock the fish and maybe kill it. IMHO, the best thing to do is to focus in on making sure your pH is steady rather than at a specific number. While most any fish has a 'preferred' pH, rapidly changing pH levels in order to achieve that preferred pH can do more harm than good. In general, a freshwater fish can adapt and acclimate to a wide range, if not any pH level if it is done slowly.

First, I am curious to know how this tank can be accumulating nitrite and nitrate levels when there are no fish present. Are you adding an ammonia source other than fish right now? If not, I would do those same nitrite and nitrate tests on the tap water as well to see if the water source is the culprit in those areas.

The thing to keep in mind here is that the goal is really not focused on you working hard to get a 'good' test result. In reality, what you are trying to do is to first populate the tank with beneficial bacteria, which will 'eat' ammonia and nitrites to make nitrates...which you would then remove via water changes. From there, your goal would be to keep that good bacteria alive and working in your favor here. This is the easier part for most of us.

Take a look through the article section here and brush up on some information and ideas about cycling your tank. Even if you understand that process, the article HERE will help you better understand the chemistry aspect of things and explain a little bit about what ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are and what you are looking for in those areas. I am bringing this up because in reality, having a tank with 0 nitrates is, for the most part, a bad thing. For example, if you are seeing nitrate levels raise over the course of a week, then you can be sure that the tank has good bacteria in it and that bacteria is breaking down your fishes' wastes into a less toxic substance. Make sense?

Feel free to ask any more questions or point out anything we may have missed so far and I am sure you will get the answers and info soon.

BJP

I think that explains the nitrite and nitrate. Transferring the tank to the new location and new water source combined with the over feeding. Instead of using products like the nitraban, we give the aquarium water changes to bring the nitrate down. Nitrate is your friend. Give the tank enough water changes to keep the nitrate low and you solve most of the other problems at the same time including many things you can't test for.

jmbarr

Thanks for all the help.

I am sorry I must not have been clear, the high nitrite snd nitrate levels were before the fish all died.

I will read the article that you recomend. I am sure this will help me not only with her tank but my own as well.

I will put some more Goldfish in her tank and let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again for all the help

SailorMi

Baking Soda is a base. To lower the PH, you would need to make it more acidic. Baking Soda will increase your PH (up to it's PH level).

Adding chemicals to adjust the PH every water change sounds like a lot of work.

You may want to try adding a bag of peat moss in the filter. I have not tried it, however a co-worker swears by it. I think it's suppose to lower the PH.

Rex