fishchris

New here so if this was posted earlier, my applogies.

Tank has been running for 2 ywears
30 gallon long
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
60 -80 ppm nitrates
pH 6.4
Temp 82
undergravel filter
small air pump for added bubble features
10 neons
2 albino cats, small
2 algae eaters, small
5 tetras, medium size
3 guppies
2 angelfish, 1 size of quarter, 1 3 inch diameter

1st. I can not get my pH any higher than 6.4. I am using the 5 in 1 Mardel test strips and Topfin pH increase. I follow the instructions and cannot get above 6.4 and stopped once I realized the pH wasn't going up. Any ideas why?

2nd. I do water changes every two weeks 30% and only add aquarium salt back to the new water and nothing else. Should I be using ACT or adding anything else at water changes to enhance the tank water? My water is private non chlorinated well water that is filtered for iron and also adjusted for ph to about 6.4

3rd Every time I add fish to the tank, once, maybe twice a year, all seems healthy and either one or more of the new fish die within 72 hours or even worse one or more of the existing fish die from unknown reasons, angelfish especially. And the death is usually sudden, one day fine, the next dead. Recently I introduced a number of new fish after a slow reduction of fish in the tank over time. 3 new angels for a total of four, two are dead and the remaining two are looking bad, seemingly "drying up", fading away. Also new, I have introduced every two days some dried brine shrimp. Any ideas to help? Be honest and blunt. I just want to fix this problem and be able to introduce new fish safely.

Thanks.

gm333

Could be your test strips wont go above 6.4 strips are very inaccurate. Liquid tests are more accurate.

Salt is not needed, but can be used. since you dont have chlorine there is no reason to treat the water with anything.
I suggest buying a freshwater master test kit, and post all of the readings from the kit. Maybe then we can figure out the reason your having a problem. Also have you had your well water thouroughly tested for chemicals?

Loman

fishchris

Welcome to the forum

With the exception of pH the parameters look decent. The nitrates seem a little high and deserve to be watched. I am not sure how religious you are regarding water changes but maybe step them up in frequency or quantity. You might also look at the source water to make sure there are no Nitrates present.

You did not share the alkalinity reading. I am guessing it is fairly high so that you are having little effect in altering the pH. You mention that the well water is adjusted to a pH of 6.4. Do you know how that is accomplished?

I would be inclined to put some calcium based substrate into the mix which should raise the pH. I am sure BJP will have a few thoughts as he works with wells all the time.

I suspect the sudden death on introduction is from osmolity (sp) shock due to the pH. I would focus on that in this case first. However pH can often be a real challenge cause if you get ti to start to move upward it can become very unstable and then swing all over the place which may be worse.

__________________
Loman

24 Gallon Salt Aquapod
20 Gallon Freshwater
Various QT tanks
2 x 75 Gallon Reefs in planning stage

fishchris

The Mardel 5 in 1 strips go up to 8.4 so it theoretically should be able to read higher.

I haven't had my well tested for chemicals for at least 10 years so maybe thats not a bad place to start.

Although I have an undergravel filter and live plants probably aren't good for the filter with the roots and all, would "potted" plants help the nitrates?

Do you have any master test kits to reccomend?

fishchris

Alkalinity 80 ppm

hardness 120 ppm

Loman

fishchris,
The one from aquarium pharmaceuticals has worked well for me. I am also a hold out though and generally lazy so I use the strips to get a quick read.

I neglected to mention the filter. I do not think that is the pressing issue but it may be part of the reason for the high Nitrates. I think there are better options than an under gravel filter. Most I have seen trap a lot of material in the substrate and based on the search I have read move the water through the substrate too fast to be all that beneficial. I know alot of people used these for years with good results. They seem to be much less popular these days. Just something to think about.

__________________
Loman

24 Gallon Salt Aquapod
20 Gallon Freshwater
Various QT tanks
2 x 75 Gallon Reefs in planning stage

gm333

Yes potted plants would help witht the nitrates, probably not as much as you would like them to though. I use AP as well, although I use an electric ph meter.

fishchris

Thanks for the help. I'll check back tommorow for more.

Tommy Gun

I agree with all the advice so far. I especially agree with Loman on the UGF being a source of nitrates, even more so if you have been using it for the entire two years. Keep in mind that nitrates are toxic to fish, just like ammonia and nitrite, with the only difference being at what levels each are toxic. Typically, my goal is to stay at or below 30 ppm of nitrates, 40 at the very highest. I accomplish that by not over feeding and weekly water changes. I think you would really benifit from weekly water changes as well, versus the every two weeks plan you are on now. This would really eliminate the need to find an alternative method of lowering nitrates like the addition of plants since that may be harder than it sounds like.

The UGF is probrably the best method of filtration available, however it is the most vulneable as well and can become worthless if proper maintenance is not used to clean it and take out detrius that collects under it. The basic principle is to simply draw down the water and wastes through the substrate so that the bacteria can get at it. Since the bacteria are present in the substrate, this works well until too much gunk accumulates in or under the substrate. This is the reason why most people state UGFs are poor filters and suggest not using them.

As for the pH, I agree that it is low and risky to attempt a change with chemicals or quick fixes. I would suggest what Loman points out as far as putting some crushed coral or other sort of carbonate based substrate either into your tank directly, or added into an HOB filter should you decide to get away from using the UGF.

Also, is the water you are using going through a water softener or other type of filter? If so, you may want to check the pH of the water which comes out of the outdoor hoses to see if it is higher since they are not normally treated or filtered in any way.

I agree with GM about the dechlor products, but would also add that using one would not hurt you and may have other benifits for your fish as well.

I also suggest reading through this 'sticky' article on how to acclimate fish. While I realize that it is in the saltwater forum, IMHO the are the best methods for acclimating any type of fish or invert. I also feel that by using them, your chances of keeping a newly purchased fish alive would be much better if you gave them appropriate amounts of time to get used to your tank chemistry versus the chemistry of the water at the LFS they have been living at. On top of that, I would never add the water from the bag with new fish in it but simply net the fish out of the bag and place it into the water once your acclimation period is completed.

http://www.fishtankforums.com/6-salt...livestock.html

BJP

There could be a variety of ways the iron is being lowered or removed along with the PH being adjusted depending on which direction they're trying to move the PH.

Generally filtration people try to move the ph up into the neutral to alkaline ranges to protect copper pipes and heating elements in hot water heaters.

There may also be water softners involved using ion exchange resin to replace hardness with salt but they also remove small levels of iron and manganese but if I remember correctly higher levels cause major problems with the ability to recharge the resins.

There's no way I can guess accurately what's going on. You kinda have to know what you're starting with and which products are being used to accomplish the goal. There could be anywhere from 1 to 3 boxy looking units under the house tackling the project a variety of ways.

Angels have been living in the tank long term so that suggests they can live in the water once disease and acclimation issues are tackled.

As for the angels, they're really difficult to find healthy specimans of. Many show no external symptoms at all. I would really advise starting in a smaller quarantine tank with water matching the source of aquisition and then tiny water changes to get them used to your water slowly. Hopefully that'll stop any acclimation issues while keeping any diseases away from the established angels for the first month. It might mean having to lug a couple clean five gallon jugs of water home from the stores tap.