all4you

I have a 30 gallon set up, with bala sharks, madagascar rainbows, red tail sharks, and some tetra's. I recently just lost a few, so i took them all out and put them in a container with new water and chemicals, so i tested the old water and had a nitrate level of 1, and amonia of 5. Im assuming that the amonia is what killed them, so i drained out about 2\3 of the water and filled the rest up with new water, and appropriate chemicals, and added live bacteria (tlc), and am waiting a few days to test again before adding the fish in the tank again. I had a friend who has kept fish for years that the carbon in my filter cartrige may be neutralizing the chemicals i put in. And that i need to take the carbon balls out of the filter. Is that correct? I have never heard of that before. I thought the carbon did allot of positive things like, keep the water from getting yellow or worse, keep the fishy water smell down, and keep the chlorine level down. Any suggestions or comments on this? Its deeply appreciated. Thanks, Charlie

Sniperelite8243

i guesiing you didnt cycle your tank
read the cycling a tank sticky

-yes ammonia killed your fish, ammonia poisoning
-yes carbon does alot of things like keep the water clear and remove SOME bad things out of the water, unfortanatly is doesn't diffirentiate betwwen bad stuff and good chemicals

and no. carbon doesnot nuetralize it. as you said, he had it for years. it takes a month to cycle. once a tank cycles it has GOOD bacteria that takes out the harmfull stuff, exept one that builds up very slowely, Thats why you do water changes.

good luck
&
welcome to the forum

__________________

BJP

What chemicals are you putting in specifically?

I'll second that the ammonia is the most likely cause of death but with new fish there can be so many others that it's hard to say for sure. You can be sure that being in water with ammonia did no good for them.

Be careful the container doesn't develop an ammonia problem while you wait. Once the fish are back in the tank continue testing to be sure the ammonia spike doesn't return or the nitrite spike that usually follows.

Tommy Gun

Welcome to the forum! I assure you that you have come to a great place to get your aquaria questions answered!

From your test numbers, your tank is not cycled. Sniper is right, you could benifit greatly from reading and understanding this information found here:
http://www.fishtankforums.com/5-fres...-aquarium.html

What Sniper is trying to get at with how bacteria that take out bad chemicals like Ammonia and Nitrite, resulting in nitrate, is all contained in that 'sticky' article and from there, you can help ensure that your next fish have a much much much longer life!

In short, the ultimate goal here is not really to 'control' or 'rid' your tank of ammonia...since the only true way to do this is to not put fish in the tank. The ammonia comes from your fish's wastes as it is broken down by the natural decaying process.

What the true goal is, and what has escaped most all of us as we were just starting out in the hobby, is to promote and protect a colony of benificial bacteria that will 'eat' ammonia, transforming it into nitrItes, and then the same promotion and protection of another type of benificial bacteria that will 'eat' nitrItes, and transform them into nitrAtes. Ammonia and NitrItes are very toxic, even in low levels, however, nitrAtes, while still toxic, need to be in much higher amounts to have a real drastic affect on your fish. The most common method to take nitrAtes out of a tank are through water changes, whether those be weekly, biweekly, or monthy; depending on what fish and how many fish you have in your tank.

The thing that I would like to bring up here is that in the future, my suggestion to you would be to reconsider your stocking and probrably skip both the Bala Sharks and the Red Tail Black Sharks. This is for two reasons...first, the bala sharks are going to quickly out grow a 30 gallon tank since they reach lengths of over a foot long if kept properly (if not, they simply stop growing when they die). Second, the Red Tail Black Shark, while also a larger fish at adulthood, is also pretty territorial and even though they are generally 'safe' to keep in a community tank, they will show aggression and territorialism (if that is a word) toward other fish of the same species, or similar looking fish like the rainbow sharks.

The stocking of your tank is going to have a huge impact on your long term success and while I realize that many people think that 30 gallons is a lot of water, it is a relatively small fish tank by most standards. This is not a bad thing per say, but somewhat limiting. However, every tank is limiting and we are all in the same boat in the end unless someone here can afford a pool large enough for a whale!

Please do not get discouraged by any of this information. I realize that is seems like a bunch of complicated mumbo-jumbo, but the reason that forums like this have been created is to help spread information and ideas about how fish tanks really work and how to get the most from yours. It is really not a test of anyone's IQ by any means, but it can test your patience a bit. Then again, doing things completely blindly can take more time and money in the long run anyways!

Again, welcome to the forum. It is great to meet you!

all4you

ok, sorry for the long reply. I read the cycling tread after i posted this thread last night, and i learned a lot. My tank has been refreshed with new water, and I added my chlorine drops, ph powder, and live bacteria drops. Since last post, the rest of my fish have died, that were in a seperate tank from the amonia filled tank they were origionaly in. They were really sick, so i was not too suprised. Anyways, In the cycling thread , they talked about starting with small gold fish, normally used for feeder fish, to start the cycling process, as they are pretty tough fish, and can normally take water that is not leveled out properly better than others. So Is it too early to add them, The tank has had no fish in it for about 2 and 1/2 days, with the chemicals in the new water. Should i wait, or do you think it is ok for me to add them now?

BJP

If there are no fish in the tank now and I'm sorry you had to go through losing all your original fish, then I'd take the time to fishless cyle the tank or at least a variation of the concept. If your bacteria drops are doing anything which I personnely doubt, they should have enough time within a week or so to show you some results. Add a small quantity of pure ammonia, toss in a shrimp or two from the freezer or just continue to feed the tank with fish food like the fish are already in it and wait for the test results to show you the tank is cycled and ready for fish.

You can learn a lot during this delay and avoid buying goldfish you may not want as permanent pets. I've always found it kinda creul in my mind to show a feeder fish what the good life looks like just to return it to a store where it'll most likely end up as an oscars lunch. Of course I'm attaching human emotions to animals that may not have them.

all4you

ok, so i have added pure amonia today for the first time. I added five drops per 10 gallons. That was the average amount from all the sites i have researched, so i hope it is right. From what i gather, i am supposed to reduce the amount of amonia i put in the tank daily at some point. Is it the nitrite that i am looking for to spike, then reduce the amount of amonia? IF so, what readings should i be seeing when i know its time to reduce the drops? That is one thing that i have found many diffrent opinions on, on all the websites i have found about fishless cycling. Also is the nitrite the good bacteria that i am supposed to be building up in my tank?

Loman

all4you,
I have not cycled with ammonia (I typically use fish food) but the idea is the same. You should be able to keep adding the same amount of ammonia and the level detected should decrease as the bacteria builds. Re-read the sticky that Tommy suggested to get all the names of the bacteria but Nitrate is not the bacteria. The cycle starts with Ammonia which is converted to Nitrite which is converted to Nitrate which is converted to Nitrogen (and escapes through the surface). Each step has different bacteria to support the conversion but it all starts with the presence of the ammonia. I think it is far more important to understand what is converted into what (listed above) than the specific name of the bacteria that does the conversion. Once the cycle is complete and there is consistently no ammonia or nitrite reading it will be time to add fish. At that time you want to quit adding ammonia since the fish and decaying food etc will provide the ammonia.

__________________
Loman

24 Gallon Salt Aquapod
20 Gallon Freshwater
Various QT tanks
2 x 75 Gallon Reefs in planning stage

all4you

will my carbon in my filter affect the process of cycling, should i remove the carbon from my filter for now? or even indefinatly?

BJP

I would for two reasons.

1. I want my bacteria to develop on permanent locations and the carbon is designed to be removed later. In the filter, where the oxygen levels should be pretty high, a portion of the bacteria you want will grow on the carbon itself. If you plan to never change the carbon and replace it then this point is moot.

2. The water will not be used for fish. Once your cycle is complete you'll need a large water change prior to getting the fish. Adding the carbon then will allow it to spend it's limited useful life cleaning the water the fish will actually be in.

Wether you choose to use carbon long term or not is kinda up to you. It can do some good but many people with lots of tanks choose to skip it to save money.