2leftfins

My dh and I bought my ds a 20 gallon fish tank for his birthday six months ago

We started off with a 7 tetras and a cory. Slowly we've added fish here and there with no problems.

Almost two weeks ago I purchased two yo-yo loaches to help get rid of all the snails that are accumulating in the tank, as well as a plecostomus.

Last Friday I noticed one of the tetra's wasnt looking too well, and what looked like bubbles all over him. That night the plecostomus was dead as well as one of the loaches.

The next day it was some of the tetras.

My dh took a water sample to the LFS and told them about the fish. They said the fish had ich and it was caused by stress from adding new fish to the tank. We've medicated the tank as per instructions from the store.

I had 14 fish and I am down to 4. Three are tetras the 4th is a cory.

Now what?

When can I add more fish? How many should I add? What other advice or tips can you give me so I can prevent this from happening again.

I feel overwhelmed, there is so much to know!!

TIA

Jay

Hi 2leftfins, and Welcome to our Forums

Well... you are in trouble

IMO you have two things going on that are killing your fish.

One: The tank is not cycled, if I understood your start up. You need to read all the Sticky articles on Cycling a tank. They are located at the beginning of the Freshwater Forum.

Two: Ich medications can kill fish, and there are much better non med methods to use. Read the Sticky Article on Diagnosing and Curing Ich also at the top of the freshwater forum.

FYI:

Is pure bunk...they sold you fish which already had Ich.

Read and Get back with questions

Regards,
Jay

2leftfins

Thank you Jay.

2leftfins

Okay so I read it all...and dh read it all.

It really helped.

I do still have a few more questions.

When you say the tank isnt "cycling." I'm not sure what you mean.

I read the thread on cycling your tank but it was more about nitrates/nitrites and ammonia levels. Do you mean I should be changing the water more often than I have been?

I have been removing 25% of the tank water about once a month when I change the filter. By reading the threads here, it sounds like I should definitely be increasing the frequency. How often should this be done?

How will I know when my tank is clear of Ich? and ready for more fish? And how many should I buy for a 20 gallon tank?

Tommy Gun

Your questions are all pretty common and all pretty broad in general so it would be hard to answer them completely in just one post. The progression of your tank's water to grow bacteria that will first change ammonia (fish wastes) into nitrItes and then into nitrAtes is referred to as a tank cycling. Once a tank has been established long enough to deal with fish and inverts (snails and the like), it is referred to as being a 'cycled tank'. So, the three chemicals you point out are directly related to cycling. There are a couple of ways to get your tank cycled...one is by using very hardy fish that can withstand living in water with high ammonia and nitrite levels until enough benificial (good) bacteria are grown to change these chemicals into nitrAtes. Ammonia and nitrItes are toxic in relatively small amounts and fish can suffer from them, become stressed, and become more susceptible to things like Ich. NitrAtes are also toxic to your fish, however in larger amounts. The best method to remove nitrAtes from your tank is to do water changes.

In general, most people will do a water change about once a week to start off with. This is usually done at a rate of about 20 to 30% of the old water being taken out of the tank, discarded, and replaced. When replacing the water, it is important to use a dechlorination conditioner that will remove the chlorine (and chloramines) that are added to your water to help keep it safe for you to drink and cook with. It is not as benificial to fish however and so it is important to remove it.

Filter media, as you point out, should also be changed in some sort of schedule. However, there are a couple of types of filter media in your filter, most likely, and only some of that media should be taken out of the filter, discared, and replaced. Since we do not know exactly what type of filter you have, in general, it is best to only discard the filter media that contains the carbon or 'activated charcoal'. The other types of filter media are there to basically promote benificial bacteria growth (to keep your tank cycled) and should NOT be discarded but rather washed gently, usually in the old water from the tank, to remove any 'gunk' that builds up over time. The reason you do not want to use tap water to clean it is because of the chlorine and because using too hot or too cold of water as well as water at a high pressure will remove or kill the benificial bacteria that are on it. In theory, by removing all of the filter media and putting completely new stuff in your filter would equate to be much the same as you having a brand new tank and your fish can again suffer from ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

However, this bacteria also grows in your substrate and on the decorations in your tank (fake plants, rocks, little bubbling treasure chests, etc...). Still, this bacteria is not generally able to affect all the water in your tank and it is the moving water through your filter that creates the best biofiltration system in your tank.

Jay is right, there are many better ways to deal with Ich. I also believe that what your LFS told you is about 0.001% correct since adding new fish improperly or otherwise not keeping your tank maintained properly does stress your fish and make them more susceptable to Ich. The best bet from here on out is to take things slowly and methodically so that you can help support your current and new fishes' health so that they can 'fight back' against the Ich, for lack of a better term, and in turn, stress you out less often.

I hope this at least clears up a little bit of your questions and confusion. It really does sound more complicated than it really is, trust me. In my opinion, your best first step is to get yourself some test kits from the LFS so that you can monitor your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. If you could also share those numbers with us on this forum, we can hopefully explain more in detail what they mean and a possible good course of action for the future.

TG

2leftfins

Thanks for the reply. We have been cycling only about once per month and adding some distilled water to make up for the 'evaporation' of the tank in between. As suggested by the pet store.

Whenever removing and adding new water we use a dechlorinator and 2 other bottles .. of something.

We took water to the pet store for a test today.

Ph- 7.8
ammonia - 0
nitrates - 0
nitrites - 0
Temp - 78 degrees

When the sample was first brought in on Saturday (the day we got the Clout for the Ich problem) the PH was slightly lower (7.6) and there was a trace or nitrates or nitrites .. I can't remember which.

We turned the heat up a but also shooting for 82 degrees.

So, we are going to do a couple of more 'cycles' and if all seems normal add new fish and start all over.

We discussed getting our own test kit, we will do so once the tank settles down and we add more fish. We have 4 left .. one is not doing so well. We did a second treatment for Ich today and removed and replaced about 1/3 of the water.

The saga continues.

There are fish in little plastic cups at Wal-Mart that need no maintenance .. WTF didn't we buy one of those????!

Tommy Gun

There may be some confusion here and I hope I can help you out here a little bit.

HOPEFULLY, your tank will only cycle one time. In short, when a tank is "cycling", a bacteria colony is being formed within the tank. Since fish obviously create wastes, like we do, this bacteria is needed to first 'eat' the ammonia from these wastes and in turn create or return nitrItes to the water. Other bacteria then 'eat' the nitrItes and once again create or return nitrAtes to the water. A tank is officially "cycled" once there is enough bacteria to deal with the fish wastes so that the fish do not die. Ammonia and NitrItes are pretty toxic in low levels and so this problem is solved by the bacteria who transform both of these into nitrAtes. NitrAtes are also toxic, but at higher levels and so it is acceptable for a fishkeeper to allow them to build up over a period of time. Usually, for most fishkeepers, doing a weekly water change is the best method and schedule to take some of the nitrates out of a tank.

From what it sounds like, you might be confusing 'cycling' with water changes and so I hope I helped at least a little bit to describe the differences.

The reason a test kit is pretty important, is because you can really benifit from knowing what chemicals are present in your tank. Since ammonia and nitrItes are toxic in low levels, fish that are kept in a tank that does not contain enough bacteria to eat and transform these two items will first lead to stressing the fish and eventually death. You have probrably been able to keep your four fish alive thus far by changing the water every so often, but the fish are still being stressed. When fish are stressed, they are weaker and cannot fight off illnesses and diseases as well, just like often happens to us when we get a cold, we can usually get even more sick if we do not take certain steps. It is my opinion that all of your fish were stressed and weakened by being kept in an uncycled tank and this is the reason that Ich has been able to prevail so well in your tank.

The problem now is that Ich medications and other additivies are going to become a problem for the fish themselves since they are in such a weakened state and the tank's water is not able to remain healthy on its own. The LFS test numbers that you list are all good, however there is something missing. Most any cycled fish tank in anyone's home is almost always going to have at least SOME nitrAtes. Your test numbers show the lack of nitrAtes and this means that there are no or very little bacteria in the tank to make nitrAtes. I believe that you will have to correct this problem before you are able to fully 'cure' your fish of Ich and prevent it in the future. This is why I highly suggest that you get your own test kit so that you can monitor the water on a more regular basis without having to take a trip to the LFS. This is also not to mention the fact that the LFS employee who tested your water should have pointed out the lack of nitrAtes to you and so once you have a test kit, you will be able to see for your own eyes and know what is happening.

Tommy Gun

There are fish in little plastic cups at Wal-Mart that need no maintenance .. WTF didn't we buy one of those?????

Honestly, these fish in the cups (Betta fish) are not maintenance-free and really are not being kept under the best conditions in these little cups. These fish do have an adaptation that allows them to live in smaller bodies of water with low oxygen levels because they can take air from above the water and use it. HOWEVER, because these fish can do this, it DOES NOT mean that they should be forced to do it on a constant basis and kept in a cup, bowl, or flower pot. These fish do need maintenance and should be kept in a fish tank, IMO, even if it is a small one in the range of 1 to 10 gallons or more. The whole cup thing is just a gimmick and you could find yourself in the exact same situation with them as you are in now.

Too good to be true, usually is not true.