fernival brainard

Well, here's the latest and it ain't pretty. Today (june 9th) my largest scat is starting to get cloudy eyes again and his skin isn't looking so great either, he has also stopped eating.

I have resumed treatment with Maracyn and I am keeping the lights turned off (don't know if that helps, but it can't hurt either....right??) The smaller of my two guys, is looking okay and is still eating. I'm almost certain alot of the problems have to do with the type of water they are in. So, I'll continue to dose the tank with meds for another five days and see where we stand.

If anyone has any advice they would like to offer for treating Columnaris or something closely resembling it, please let me know. These dudes are some of my favorite fish and I really care about them and want to do all I can to make them better.

And yes, before you tell me to put them in the right water....I am trying!!

Thanks folks,
much love
*fern*


the problem I'm facing with finding somebody to take them is tank size. Nobody has a brackish tank large enough to accomodate them and they don't have a sw tank that they can put them in due to species incompatibility. Needless to say, I cuss alot over the situation, and I am even looking at restaurants with fish displays. They were marked to go to a fish auction on the 26th but with them being sick and all, that's pretty much out.
I even tried to give them to Moody Gardens, a local aquarium, and the Houston Zoo. They don't want them either.

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Tommy Gun

Hey fern,

First, let me be clear that I have never had to deal with columnaris firsthand, secondhand, or thirdhand for that matter. However, because I was interested and know that you might need answers in a more timely manner, here is what I have read about the problem and some suggested methods for dealing with it:

1. Not to beat this to death but this is a bacteria which has at least some ability to move with its own discretion - in water anyways - and does need a host fish to be weakened in one way or another to infect it.
2. Water temp seems to be not only a cause, but also a pseudo-treatment in itself because lowering the water temp to 76 degrees (F) or lower can slow the progression...in fact, I read that this is an issue that it more prevalent in the summer because it can be hard to maintain water temps due to the warmer ambient temperature
3. Like almost anything else, there is more than one 'strain' of this bacteria and from what I have read so far, your fish are probably infected with the more mild version since some types can kill a fish in the matter of a day or less.
4. It sounds like this is a type of bacteria that benefits from an environment that has lower levels of oxygen...so if you haven't already, perhaps finding a way to increase gas exchange in the water would help out. In fact, lowering your water temp may also help since it can, in general, hold more oxygen than warmer water.
5. Similar to ich treatments, you should continue your chosen method of treatment for a week or two after the last sign of illness has left your fish versus stopping treatment by appearances alone.
6. Lastly (for now), but almost most importantly, the various resources I have read do state that the most effective treatment is for your fish to ingest certain antibiotics versus adding the meds to the water alone. IME, this can be relatively easy to do simply by pre-soaking food in medication just before giving it to your fish. Obviously this might pose a problem since it doesn't sound like you are in a good position to quarantine these fish so it is likely that your healthy ones are going to eat some of that food...but I am not really sure what the ramifications of that would truly be.

Again, all of this is merely what I have read tonight and I can't really vouch for its accuracy one way or another...however, many resources do seem to agree with each other; which is sort of rare in this hobby I suppose.

For the record though, I still feel as though there is still some chance that your current diagnosis isn't entirely correct and IMHO, you would probably benefit from keeping an open mind and try not to focus too narrowly on columnaris alone.

nyrmel

Fern and here I thot they where doing better i am still keeping my fins crossed for you and that you will find them a safe home environment (or one for their tank mates) soon Tommy looks like he may have some good ideas there one or two had crossed my mind but he detailed them better than I could good luck I do hope your little one stays alert since he was hit harder last time

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NyrmelNeewbie extrodinary
luvr of things furry, finny, or the color purple
20 gallon planted few dozen mystery snails(bulldozers), 1 molly plethera of guppies Warning I can't spell to save my life, & I tend to ramble... alot Also an avid outdoor ponder with 5 koi, a dozen goldfish and 3 cats and my newest Justice the dog!

fernival brainard

Today, june 11th, the large scat was dead when I came home from work. The small one still looks to be improving and is doing well. All other fish in the tank are doing well also. The water temp is currently at 78degf and I have monstrous amounts of water surface agitation to aid in oxygen uptake. I have been treating them with an antibiotic and am following the package directions. Today will be the 3rd day of the second round of treatments. I am considering changing to a more broad spectrum treatment but fear that the first round of meds may have just made the infection stronger. *sigh* I'm going to go fish my dead baby out of the tank now...and dry my eyes, as this is very traumatic.

Thanks a ton for the help Tommy, I really appreciate the research and work you have devoted to my honey bunny fishies!!

Nyrmel, thanks for the crossed fins and for caring. :-)

luv ya FTF!!
regards,
fern

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nyrmel

Fern *big Hug*
I am so sorry to hear that I was rootin for him. You say your other smaller one is looking ok? Maybe since he spent more time fighting it at first he will have built up more of a defense so the second outbreak will pass him. At least I truly hope it is something like that I know it is hard after working so hard to keep them and make themhappy and healthy to lose you big one. I do hope the issue leaves with him though and that you are soon able to get housing sorted very soon. I am sorry I dont have great advice but I will keep fins crossed that it is over and I do care.

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NyrmelNeewbie extrodinary
luvr of things furry, finny, or the color purple
20 gallon planted few dozen mystery snails(bulldozers), 1 molly plethera of guppies Warning I can't spell to save my life, & I tend to ramble... alot Also an avid outdoor ponder with 5 koi, a dozen goldfish and 3 cats and my newest Justice the dog!

Tommy Gun

Hey fern, I am also sorry to hear about your loss...I am sure that we are all pulling for you and your fish to have the most positive outcome as possible.

As far as the change in medications, if you aren't already, you might want to try using Maracyn (not Maracyn two) since it is a broad spectrum antibiotic and also seems to be a common suggestion for treating columnaris. Again, if your fish is still eating, your best bet would probably be finding a way for the sick fish to ingest the meds versus treating the water.

Again, sorry to hear about your loss...please keep us posted.

fernival brainard

Maracyn is the one I am using, today will be day 3 of the 2nd round of treatment. The one remaining scat is still eating on his own, but nobody in the tank will touch the medicated food I bought (it must taste really bad cause I have fish that will eat almost anything). I'm not sure I want to try to force feed a fish, that is uncharted water for me and I don't want to cause the little dude any more duress than necessary. Any tips on that??

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Tommy Gun

Well, I don't think anyone would really suggest force feeding a fish...nor know how to go about doing so in a truly practical way...but if there is no way that your fish will eat the medicated food, then you have little or no choice except to dose the water.

You are exactly right though, the last thing you want to do is stress your fish any more than you can help it. Believe it or not though, even dosing meds can become a stress factor as well so if you are going to switch medications, be sure that you remove/reduce the amount of old meds that might still be present and IMHO, it is always best to dose meds slowly - for example, over the course of a few hours...or at least the first time since I believe the usual suggestion is to start off with a stronger dose of antibiotics.

fernival brainard

Well thanks much for all the help and advice and good wishes guys, unfortunately, today (06-13) my other scat was dead when I got home from work. Today would be day 5 of the 2nd round of treatment, so either, the stuff they had was just too much for them to handle, I treated for the wrong something or a combination of the two. On the brighter side of things, I don't have to worry about finding them suitable homes anymore... :-( (I'm trying to find a positive in this, and that seems to be the only thing I can come up with.)

Total cost of my loss, not including emotional cost, is approx. $300.00. So, lesson being (applies to anyone who reads this):

DO NOT RELY ON THE WORDS OF THE FISH STORE, EVEN THE MOM AND POP ONES!!! DO YOU'RE RESEARCH AND LEARN ABOUT THE FISH FIRST!!!

This was my first mistake. My second mistake was not doing something to accomodate them, Had I known 3-4 months ago, what I know now, I would have made some serious fish relocation efforts of my more "easy to get rid of fish" and let those guys live slightly cramped but in the right water. It is truely sad that a person (me) with over 320 gal. of tank space could not do something more proactive towards getting them into a tank with some salinity.

I do hope this thread maybe of use to some other person in need and at the same time I hope it will not be needed by some one else, as losing you're babies really sucks butt. Anyway, thanks again TG and Nyrmel, myself and my "scitty-scats" appreciate the thoughts and crossed fins and everything else.

RIP my little finned friends...sorry I did you wrong :-(

Fern.

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