Back Flipping Tiger Barbs.?!?!?!

JimmyJames · 05-04-2007, 06:26 PM

Hey there, I've just lost an albino tiger barb who was doing backflips, I have noticed another normal tiger barb starting to do the same thing. Yesterday I had one small blue silverfinned tetra completely disapear but he was small in comparison to the barbs and he was added 2 days ago. I fed them late after having to work overtime. I figured the barbs had canabalized a smaller newly added fish, or that he just didn't handle the tank change stress. But now that the yesterdays perfectly healthy fish is starting the same symptoms of the albino I lost today, I am very concerned. If you can help me figure out what is going on I would really appreciate it!!!! What are these back flipping symptoms???

I have a 40 gallon with an aquaclear 500 on it (70-110) aquaclear 200? (lids missing, looks about good for a 50 gal) this also has an amonia filter in it and a UV filter good for a 30 gal that I only turn on for a few hours when I come home.

Water Paramaters are negligable. 7.4 Ph, Amonia 0, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 0. Although I have been fighting with a very highly alkaline water source of 7.8. Weekly water changes of 10 gal using Prime in 2 5gal buckets for an hour before changing. Temp 78F. Don't have any other tests for hardness or anything.

Feeding Omega One Flake, and Omega One Blood Worms, twice a day. May be somewhat overfeeding in an attempt to leave some bottom feeding for the otto.

Started the tank on 04/01/07. m.d.y

4/11/07 I added 5 green barbs, and 1 large blue silver finned tetra who is a bit aggressive on her own.
4/12/07 Green barbs had a few ich spots, treated for 5 days with rid ich and UV filter with a little sea salt. Worked awesome.
4/21/07 Added 4 Tiger Barbs, 2 Albino Tiger Barbs (probably too fast but params were okay and I was eager)
4/24/07 Smallest Albino looked like he had been bitten right on his anal cavity. Looked a little bloody and swollen. He was having a bit of a hard time swimming.
4/26/07 Added what looks like an Ottociclinicus (sp?) but is about 2.5 inch and doesn't have the full black stripe but a stripe in a line of diamonds. Not sure its an Otto. Got him because he was an oddball at wallmart, terrible water conditions there tho, should have quarentined him although he is doing great.
04/27/07 Hurt Albino seems to be swimming much better and anal cavity was much less red.
5/01/07 Albino was doing a lot of backflips and having a very hard time feeding because of lack of control. Figured he would either heal, or not. Added 5 1.5 inch Blue Silvertipped Tetras to even out agressive singles attitude, even with the barbs.
5/04/07 Lost one of the smaller Blues
5/05/07 Lost the wounded Albino stuck to the filter. One tiger barb seemed to have the beginings of the same symptoms without the anal wound. Doing one backflip while feeding. Is slightly paler than the other tigers. Now I'm very concerned. Plan to lower amount of feeding, and will include my usual friday night water change of 10 gal.

Have read a few posts suggesting mashed up peas and garlic. What is this for?
Please help me out!

Tommy Gun · 05-04-2007, 09:54 PM

Welcome to the forum JimmyJames! Sorry to hear about the problems with your tiger barbs.

First, let me preface my comments by letting you know that I am not a disease or illness 'expert' by any means....so this is all just a semi-educated guess at best, however, I know a few of our members, including myself, have come across what sounds like a very similar situation.

Generally, when a fish is swimming oddly, it is likely that there is either a water quality issue, or a swim bladder issue. Thanks to you giving a good amount of information, I can see that your water is questionable and might be your problem. Generally, you would really WANT to see some nitrates in your tank...with the possible exception of a planted tank....since they are a direct sign that your tank is 'cycled'; meaning that you have a good amount of benificial bacteria in the tank which 'transform' your fishes wastes into nitrates, which are less toxic. Without wanting to assume that you do not understand this, and please forgive me if you due, but in order to cover your bases, you might find a lot of helpful information within this article HERE, which details the cycling process and talks about the 'big three' items...ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates....among others. Usually, you would like to see 0 traceable amounts of ammonia and nitrites (which are toxic, even in low levels), and minimal amounts of nitrates (e.g. in my tank I usually try to keep less than 40 to 50 ppm of nitrates, if not less). The lack of nitrates and the nitrite levels being where they are, I think that you might try doing a water change, maybe 25 to 30 percent or so, and monitor your fish to see if there is an improvement. If so, then you can make a reasonable assumption that your water is to blame. Be sure to use a dechlor conditioner as well, even if you are relatively sure that your tap water, or water source, contains no chlorine or chloramines.

What type of ammonia filter are you using? While I know that some ammonia control products simply turn ammonia into a less toxic form of ammonium, which is still a viable food source for benificial bacteria. I would do some research on your ammonia filter to see if that is the case. If not, you may be preventing your tank from cycling since ammonia is an important item for that good bacteria. My guess is that your ammonia filter is not really removing ammonia completely since you do have nitrites...which will make more sense to you (if it doesn't already) if you read through that article above.

It is also important to note that tiger barbs do tend to 'rest' sort of differently than other fish in that they do so while looking downwards, with their tail closer to the top of the tank. Many times this confuses a lot of people who are new to tigers since it appears that they cannot swim well, but in reality, they are fine.

To answer your question about peas and garlic, I think that feeding them both might help you, but if not, it cannot really hurt you and your fish either. My understanding is that peas are good for cleaning a fish's digestive tract and garlic is good for battling internal parasites (both when there is evidence that parasites exist, but also as a preventative measure). I think that if this is not solely a water quality issue, feeding garlic and peas might do the trick....although I wouldnt expect instant results, I dont think it will take too long before you see your fish improve...if that is the true problem anyways.

Otherwise, I can assure you that there are tons of members here who might know more than I do about this, and/or have experienced this exact same problem. I am sure that they would be willing to chime in with his or her information and ideas to help you out.

Again, welcome to the forum and I hope this helps a little bit!
TG

JimmyJames · 05-04-2007, 10:51 PM

I understand the basics of water cycling but maybe I should take a re-read. I figured a bit of an ammonia spike from adding the fish too quickly it what added the nitrites and continuing the cycling but looks like I should do a re-read on that. My water quality was clear, but while I was just doing my water change I couldn't believe the garbage that came out of my gravel, and I only have about a half inch. There were actually what looks like black strings floating in my gravel cleaning bucket after the waste silt had settled. Could this be a toxic form of algea? I'm really surprised its the conditions with weekly changes and over filtration, but I think last week I may have only done a quick 5gal change. With the far to quick addition of population I guess things happen very quickly.

I threw out my ammonia remover box a good long while ago, and was actually previously used for a few weeks so I didn't expect it to be very effective, but its a standard aquaclear insert for my 50(? with the missing lid). It had occured to me that it could be affecting my cycling which is why I threw the information in there. I had tracable nitrates a few weeks ago so I assumed I was fine. I was assured that the Prime water conditioner from Seachem was one of the best on the market, but after doing some reading here, Biospira will startup my unused 25 for sure in conjuction with the aquaclear 50 I have going on the 40 gal.

Anyways, the single Tiger hasn't shown any further signs of the loss of swimming control even an hour later from the water change. I may have saved the albino if I had done a better water change last week or when I saw the symptoms reapearing on him.

Little embarassed that what seemed such a dire symptom was something so simple. <grin>