Goldfish Ich?

BJP

Sorry I'm late to the party. I usually skip this forum for a variety of reasons but since I was asked I'll go into a few things.

The 0.05% salt solution works out to about 1/2 tablespoon per five gallons of water. That should also translate into about 1 and 1/2 teaspoons per five gallons.

Goldfish have no problem with salt addition at all and I've taken them as high as 3 tablespoons per five gallons. The main thing for countering ick is making sure you meet the minnimum requirement.

I wouldn't rush to get the salt back out. It's not going to hurt anything having it in there and you might want to carry the dosage through to the new tank for the first month or so until everything settles down.

Ick reinfests the gills heavily and goldfish are high oxygen needing coldwater fish. Cranking the temperature up too high lowering the oxygen levels in the warmer water at a time the gills are infested with baby icklings making breathing difficult could be a bit risky. I would probably stay at 75 myself and work on relieving the stress that's triggered the outbreak and any secondary issues that come up from fin rot to infections of the exist wounds where the ick left the fish. If you can locate a store selling Jungle brand meds in crystalline form I've used Fungus Eliminater by package instructions in addition to the salt to treat goldfish more times than I could put a number on without a bookkeepers help.
http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=NJ117

A secondary concern I hope you don't have to deal with is some weird internal problem that seems to be running through the goldfish this year. I've managed to lose five out of my first seven goldfish this year to the exact same symptoms, two red cap orandas, two black moors and a calico oranda. The symptoms come across as one day the fish is sitting on the bottom not moving. You go to the tank and it gets up and swims around normally and eats great. The next day it's dead. No time to react or treat in four out of five cases. I'm trying another black moor and red cap right now. This problem has been appearing about 3 weeks after purchase. One week in quarantine has passed without incident on the two new ones. If I lose anymore I'm going to go back to prophalictically treating with salt and Fungus Eliminater on the next attempt.

Robbw

I appreciate the response. I have the tank at 1 tsp per gallon approx (25 tsp to take into account substrate and decor etc.).

I actually started a treatment recommended by the store that I bought the moors, Jungle's new product, Lifeguard. Unless that is a bad idea for some reason, I'll run the tank for a few more days to get the full 5 day treatment in, then I'll move everything to the 55 gallon tank, keep the salt levels at what you recommend, and cross my fingers!

As for your last point, I'm not sure. I lost 2 orandas and a veiltail about 3 weeks after I set up the tank. But I believe that was probably due to lack of proper cycling. Who knows!

harryson

Raise your water tempurature to at least 78 if you want to get the ich out fast. Your fish can probobly handle it. I had ich in my 20gallon tank, i had the temp up to 86 and did the salt treatment and it was gone in 3 days

Robbw

Looks like no more spots on the goldies. Everyone is acting normally. The moor still has that small white patch on its fin but it does seem smaller today.

BJP

By all means continue and finish any medication regimines already started. At least in terms of antibiotics which I don't believe in using, premature stopping can lead to resistence issues later on. I'll see if I can dig up any info on the current product at Jungles site. Hopefully it's not another addition to the fizzy tab line and I don't remember Jungle being in the antibiotic market at any time so it might be alright.

I guess we can't get everything we want anymore.
http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TT101

It claims not to be antibiotic based but only comes in the tablet style. I've never broken any of their other tablets neatly or accurately. I usually get one funny shaped large hunk, a couple smaller chunks and an assortment of powder and crumbs trying to treat gallonages not divisable by 10. The site also doesn't list the ingredients but there should be a list in an ingredients label somewhere on their products usually listing sodium chloride first since it's their primary carrier for the meds and weighs the most. Based on their five day add it every day instructions this would be a good time for a smaller quarantine/hospital tank to save having to use so many tablets. I would also question its affects on the bacteria bed since it requests dosage of bacterial suppliments after completion. One more good reason to medicate somewhere safer than the main tank.

One more habit of mine, I generally use their products based on the sticker gallonage of the tank. I know I lose some capacity from the substrate and decor but I usually make most of that back up with the capacity of the filters used. Close enough anyway not to worry.

Robbw

Might be a good question on the bacteria issue since I registered some nitrites .25, this morning, for the first time since the tank was cycled. I did a 5 gallon water change (about 20%) and vacuumed the bottom. I also added a couple of capfuls of Cycle. I'll test again when I get home tonight.

Fish seem to be doing well. That moor still has a small white patch on the fin but I think it's even smaller today. Hopefully!!

Other readings (since I added a little baking soda to bring up Kh) are ph 7, ammonia 0, Gh 120-140 and Kh is 100. Nitrates are about 20. Temp is at 75 degrees. Tomorrow night I make the big move to the 55.

BJP

Any chance you can shuffle the 29 out of the way but leave it set up with the fish in it for a few weeks to give the health issues time to subside? It'd also make a good opportunity to speed cycle out the 55 while avoiding having to end up dosing the 55 with meds trying to cure anything you transfered in.

It's not pretty but tanks can sit on floors for short term periods. For that matter I've squeezed tanks in closets and even on top of my fridge before although I don't think I'd want a 29 gallon up there.

Robbw

I could certainly take out most of the water in the 29 (and the fish), slide it over for the short term, and then put the water and fish back in. Then I could set up the 55 where it belongs.

My dilemma was whether it was better to leave in the overstocked 29 and keep that stress in place, or move everything to the 55 and continue treatment. That's the big question...

Robbw

Tomorrow is day 5 of the treatment. Cleatus still has a small white spot on his fin but maybe it will shrink by tomorrow.

My readings show that this Jungle product does affect Nitrite. It's maybe .5. But with the salt I added at the beginning of this ick treatment, hopefully, my fish can take another day. Tomorrow night if the white spot is gone,I'll change to the 55.

BJP

I expect for right now most of the stress was related to problems from shipping, housing and transport prior to entering the 29.

Even if the 55 hasn't fully cycled in a week or so you could always bail out as soon as you have testible levels of nitrite and nitrate via a large/100% water change to get the ammonia and and nitrite out then start transferring the healthiest looking goldfish in one at a time. By that point the load should be small enough to keep the 55 from spiking out of control. The bacteria present will continue to increase and once established which the test numbers would have demonstrated, can do so quickly.

Taking this in another direction at the same time, you could always relocate the worst of the goldfish to a smaller tank or bucket now. Then you save on the meds, lessen the load on the 29 and keep the 55 free for speed cycling. In a pinch I've used five gallon buckets for hospital tanks. Add a small sponge filter or airstone.