Sick Yellow Tang

cararosalie · 09-14-2008, 06:31 PM

I've attached a photo. Can't figure out what the problem is. I've checked all levels.. ph, nitrate, nitrite, salt, temp... everything is good. The Tang has been feeding normally (mix of dry flakes and seaweed on a clip, 2x/day) and shows a decent amount of energy. Does this look like a familiar disease? Or could it be attributed to some form of stress?

The Tang follows my Neon Velvet Damsel a lot, and sometimes they go after each other. He's pretty aggressive and has increased in size very, very quickly. Could this fish be causing the Tang some type of stress...therefore causing a skin problem?

Any ideas on what I can do?

Thanks!

Judge · 09-14-2008, 07:34 PM

Hey Cararosalie and welcome to the forum. I am so sorry, I wish you were here under better circumstances. How long have the two fish been together? How long have you had the tank? I do know that stress can cause some real discoloration. I was not sure which fish was being the aggressor, but I am assuming it is not the Tang? Do you have a quarantine tank where you could remove the Damsel? Let us know so we can narrow down some possibilities, but stress would be my guess. I am also sure someone else will have some ideas too so hang in there. As long as he is still eating, that is a good sign that it is not something more serious.

cararosalie · 09-14-2008, 10:17 PM

Here's my tank info:
-1 Yellow Tang
-1 Neon Velvet Damsel
-1 Yellowtail Blue Damsel
-55 gal
-Fish-only
-Tank is 2 years old (1 year with new stock-- had a handful of fish die over time... 1 coral beauty angel, 1 auriga butterfly, 1 true percula clown, 1 four-striped damsel, 1 blue damsel-- so I started over. Got rid of my under-gravel filter)
-Whisper 60 gal power filter (change bio-bags 1x/month)
-1/3 water change every 3 weeks. Top off 1x/week.
-Feed 2x daily... strip of green marine algae and omega one dry flakes in morning, and dash of omega one flakes only, at night.

Just checked my levels:
-pH 7.5-8
-nitrate 0-20ppm (my test strips only read in that increment, so I don't know the exact number)
-nitrite 0ppm
-temp 78.5F
-specific gravity 1.023/32ppt

The Tang and the Neon Velvet have been together for a few months. The Neon Velvet and a Yellow-tail Blue Damsel were added together, and a few months later I purchased the Tang. The aquarium store advised me that the Neon Velvet can be very aggressive. They recommended a Tang and said the it should hold up against the Neon Velvet.

I thought maybe the Neon Velvet was being aggressive towards the Tang, but tonight I observed the Tang chasing the Neon Velvet. Maybe it's retaliation? Haha. The Neon Velvet isn't showing any signs of abuse. No marks from where the Tang would have swiped it with it's tail.

Yesterday, I re-arranged all of my rocks to see if maybe it would ease any territorial aggression. Guess that's not the problem, because they still seem unhappy with each other.

Today, I also tried adding about 50ml of stress coat to help the Tang's skin irritation.

I do not have a quarantine tank, and against better judgement, I've never used one. If I do get one, I should put the Neon Velvet in there, and not the sick Tang? I also don't know how to set up a quarantine tank, so any help with that would be greatly appreciated!!

I've been reading about this all day, and I can't seem to find anything that describes what my Tang is looking like.

Hope the previously attached pictures helps.

I read that Tangs can tell you how good/bad your water quality is. Maybe it has something to do with that? Am I doing something wrong?

THANK YOU!

unclejed · 09-15-2008, 09:21 AM

Hello cararosalie, one thing that jumps out is your PH. When did you
check it, in the morning or later toward the afternoon/eve? It is a
little low, should be 8.2-8.4 How about Alkalinity? I would not say the
fish has a disease. Looks more like stress. The top of his head gets
kind of red right? That damsel can be one of the really mean ones. Just
because you don't see a lot during "lights on" you would be surprised
what happens after they go off. I hate to say it but if you could get
the velvet out and trade him in, all the better. Here is a fish
compatibility chart to use for choosing
fish;http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/c...lity_chart.cfm
Hope everything works out.

Dr.Fragenstein · 09-15-2008, 09:39 AM

Looks like the beginning of head and lateral line erosion to me. The curved line visable in the picture really shouldn't be visable. Does it look like little holes around the "nose" and eyes and along that line? If thats the case than its safe to say it HLLE which is caused by improper diet, long term stress and sub par water quality. I would make sure the water is supersaterated w/ O2 and the tang is getting a proper diet w/ less stress.

Good luck

Judge · 09-15-2008, 12:10 PM

It could be HLLE. I did not see any holes but they might not be visible in the photo. If so, don't panic. Here are a few things you can easily do to help. First increase you water changes so htey are frequent.
Next thing to consider and possibly alter is his diet. I do not know what you are feeding (I may have missed in your post, if so sorry) but you can always add vitamins to any frozen shrimp/food and although I am NOT a proponent of flake foods (issues with phosphates contained in food)they are higher in some vitamins that could be beneficial. Another part of the diet could be to add some greens.

Lastly, I would remove the carbon.

I would not panic, just let us know some more specifics about his appearance and we'll go from there. Hang in there, we're here to help.

cararosalie · 09-15-2008, 04:41 PM

Thanks so much for all of the help!!

Unclejed-- Yes, the Tang's face is all pink. It almost looks like missing scales. I checked the pH at night. Do the times of day make a difference? I don't have a test kit for Alkalinity, but I will definitely be purchasing one tonight. How do alkalinity levels change a tank? It's a shame, because it looks like the Damsel should get along with the Tang, going by the compatibility chart. Maybe they just weren't meant to be. I'd hate to get rid of the Neon Velvet Damsel. He has tripled in size over the past year-- it's really cool to see.

Dr. Fragenstein-- It did look like LLE to me, too. But I'm not noticing any holes around his face. It's mostly major discoloration or skin irritation. If it is LLE, then increased O2 and vitamins would assist in clearing that up? Would an air stone be a good idea? My tank definitely has a lot of water circulation, so I didn't think it would be an oxygen problem. But I'll get a stone if I need to!

Judge-- I'm going to do a water change tonight. I'll pick up some vitamins tonight. The Tang eats green seaweed and omega one flakes 2x/day. She gets pretty excited about the seaweed, and then darts off to eat the flakes before the Damsels finish it all... and then goes back to the seaweed (while the Damsels look on in confusion, because they can't figure out how to eat it). I'll look into removing the carbon from the Bio Bags. Maybe they sell the bags w/o carbon?

I haven't noticed any change in appearance over the past day, but when I get my alkalinity test kit, my air stone, and my vitamins, annnnd do a water change-- I'll keep you updated on any progress!!

Again, thanks so much for all of the guidance.

Unclejed-- I just read up on Alkalinity. I didn't know that it was directly related to pH. My pH level, last night, was around 7.5-8.0. While purchasing all of these goodies at the aquarium store tonight, I'll pick up some pH upper. I'm going to change out the water tonight, so if that doesn't make a difference, I'll try the pH upper.

unclejed · 09-15-2008, 04:56 PM

Tangs, especially Yellow, from my experience are real touchy about the PH and Alk. More so than some of the other "tough" fish i.e. Damsels, basslets, wrasses etc. I really don't think it's LLE.
Now for my pat advice;I will suggest that when you post and are asking for help or for ideas,
please include all basic information. Basic information should include;
all water parameters(Calcium,Magnesium,Alkalinity,Ph and Nitrate and
Phosphate levels) along with Temp. of your tank and Sg (specific
gravity).Size of tank and complete set up meaning, filter type (sump,
canister etc.), if you use a skimmer,lighting (what type and total
output)plus what type of lighting are you using and what is your
lighting schedule (how long a period are your actinic and daylights on)
and if you have fish only with live rock and if you keep
corals. Also how long the tank has been up. I know some of this is in
your bio but many bios don't contain this info. How many times has
someone posted and then there is this list of postings addressing the
above. If you give the most info you can to give us a good profile, it
will cut down on response time and mis-diagnosis or answers that don't
fit and we will all benefit.

cararosalie · 09-16-2008, 10:01 AM

Unclejed-- I posted all of the tank details in one of my previous replies. I read up on some helpful posting hints and added all of that. Is there anything I'm missing that is important to know for future posts?

I went to my aquarium store last night and purchased a few things:
-Vitamin C drops
-Comprehensive Test Kit (nitrate, nitrite, pH, ammonia)
-pH Upper (I forget the brand, but it is supposed to stabilize your tank to 8.3pH)
-Grounding probe

I did a 1/3 water change last night, added the pH adjustment chemical, the vitamin C, the probe, some stress coat, and also an extra, small power filter to increase water flow and oxygen in the tank.

Before the water change and the adjustments, the Tang (and both damsels) were eating fine, breathing fine, swimming happily. But, I checked it this morning, and now they are all breathing heavy, especially the Tang. None of the fish ate any of the food I sprinkled in (omega one flakes, strip of green seaweed). It's not looking good for all of them now. I'll be really surprised if the Tang makes it through the day.

I checked my pH and it went up slightly, to a little higher than 8.0. nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia are all at zero after the water change. Temp is the same it always is: 78.5F.

Thoughts?

unclejed · 09-16-2008, 01:48 PM

The reason I posted about basic info is because I don't see Calcium, Magnesium and Alkalinity. Alkalinity works synergisticly with PH. The fish now might be reacting to the sudden jump in PH. From 7.5 to 8.1 is a good jump and they are stressing to cope. They should adjust, hopefully, but next time you are going to adjust any water parameter, it should be done incrementally and over a few days giving our little denizens of the deep a chance to acclimate.
Think of when you go swimming and ease into the water giving yourself a chance to acclimate to the water.
Hope everything works out, let us know.