Tommy Gun

Hello again everyone!

Well, because of a recent issue with diatoms (Need some suggestions....)that will not go away, I have finally decided to get my long planned refugium up and running and want to throw some ideas and questions past you all:

I have decided to use my 29 gallon biocube for this refugium and in fact, I have already drilled one of the two holes I think I will need (thanks again GM!):


Right now my plan is to use this hole as the return from my sump so I placed it at the bottom of the tank and on the opposite side of the return from the tank's own built in wet/dry filter. I am thinking that this placement is going to allow me to create opposing water currents and to help keep silly things like more diatoms from settling on my substrate. I also think that this might help me keep the same water in the tank for a longer period of time because it starts out at the bottom of the tank and would have to find its way to the top of the tank . Do you think that makes sense or am I over thinking things again?

I am also not sure what I want to do about substrate. In short, using this biocube as my refugium may leave me with the possibility of keeping livestock in it as well (perhaps a seahorse or two?!?!) so I definitely want to have something on the bottom if for no other reason than it will be visible (i.e. not under my stand).

Do you think the addition of a refugium will negate or severely lessen my perceived importance of denitrification?

If so, what would you think about me taking enough sand out of my display tank so that it is no longer a DSB, but then making a very deep (four or five inches) sand bed in the biocube?

Do you think I would still gain as much benefit from a refugium DSB as I would if I stuck to what I have in the display tank?

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One last question (for now)....

Do you think that my diatom problem could be linked to having a bad bottle of phytoplankton (I am using DT's phytoplankton)?

Even though I cannot remember the exact day I bought my last bottle of phytoplankton, judging by the amount I have left, I would say that I got it within 7 or 10 days of my first noticing the diatoms. I also realize that it never really smells good, but the bottle I have does seem to smell pretty strong; is this a sign that it might be bad?

Thanks in advance for your help!
TG

pmorris

Hiya TG, since you gave some good advice to my wife figured I can at least give you some from the research I did BTW: thanks!!

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The only thing in reading dozens of article is that the inbound should be below the water surface since it is water form the main tank skimmed off the surface. If inbound is at the surface it will just flow back into sump (or where ever you have return to) defeating the purpose?.

I have a live sand bed varying from 3? - 4?. As for live stock, you could put some types that would otherwise not survive in main tank.


Some people have chatted with have seen as much as a 20% drop, others like me saw about 10% drop in nitrates.

I would take some of the sand from main and put in refugium just to help with the organisms get going then back fill main tank. If you go 4in - 5in deep, you might want to consider critters that help turn over the top inch (like a sand starfish or snails). This of course is debatable some would say dont, others say do. I do it so that the top part gets some cleaning. Just have to make sure that the critters selected do not disturb to deeply to prevent the bio filter your trying to create.

I would go with both, can you really have to much natural filtration?!?!?


Not sure about the diatoms but as for the DT smell? They changed their formula some and it is much more pungent then before so if it as least a week before dead date then it should be good. To help with the smell, I squeeze the bottle to push out some of the air and get fresher air into it, I think it helps but could be that my sense of smell is temporarily dead from the aroma...


Here is a good basic article I found interesting? http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aquariumdiy/a/aa041400.htm

Hope this helps some?.

PM

Tommy Gun

Thanks for all of the help pmorris. You have verified much of what I was thinking too. Although I did not know that about DT's phytoplankton. One of the reasons I though it might have gone bad is because I keep it in the fridge like the bottle says but I have to keep it in my old "beer fridge" in the basement that sometimes does too good of a job, I thought it might be getting too cold.

Extremely good point.

Well hopefully I can pick up at least the 20%. I figure this is going to be a relatively large refugium and I have also reduced my stocking by four fish.....but I bought a sailfin tang last night because it was only 84 cents!!!!!

That's exactly what I was thinking....but the problem is that if the inbound water is too low, then I run into some of the same reverse siphon problems I have with my sump system. I have some ideas on how to prevent that now though.

Yea...I am really interested in a couple seahorses and have a decent shot at picking up a sea dragon as well but on the other hand, I don't want to wind up paying more attention to my refugium than my display tank so that is a ways off into the future. I have a decent amount of snails and a couple hermits left that I plan to keep in the refugium who should help keep that first inch of sand sifted.

I plan on getting this all set up today so I will take some pictures so you can see what I am up to.

Nereaga

.84 cents is not FAIR AT ALL!!!!! Seriously....

I would like to see some pictures myself, so if you could....post em up!!!

As far as "stocking" the fuge. I myself will just do a clean up crew. Like you said, I dont want to distract myself from the display with adding seahorses or something exotic to the refuge, JMO.

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75g Mixed Reef w/ Fish

Tommy Gun

I know. I almost feel bad. They had this guy labeled as a striped damsel and no one wanted it because it was mean. I cannot be blamed for the ignorance of others though....the guy owns a dang LFS for crying out loud, like he shouldn't have known....and there was no way I was passing that deal up


Anyways....I got everything set up now and here are the pictures:

^This time I got a bit smarter and cut a hole out of some duct tape because drawing the hole with a marker just washed away with the water I was using to cool the bit (I used GM333's drilling technique)

^I put one hole at the top of the tank for the water moving out of the tank and a very similar set up on the bottom of the tank for the water going into the tank. So far just having the elbow in the bulhead is working great:

Tommy Gun

I drew a line to mark the water level just to make sure that the water was flowing out of the tank as fast as it is coming in. It has been four hours now and all is working like I need it to. In fact....

...when I put the sand in there, I could see how the water was moving and it really does take a while for it to spin its way from the bottom of the tank to the top. So far all I have been able to get my hands on is this handful of Caulerpa because you know how the world works....you start looking for Chaeto and can only find 84 cent tangs. Frustrating, isn't it?

Anyways, you can also see that I added a little snorkel to the intake becuase it is so low in the tank that it would drain into my sump in case of a power outage. I had to use a check valve to make sure that water wasn't finding its way to the surface from this air line, but I tested it out and it stops the potential of the siphon. I just need to find a way to make it less obvious because...

...I have this tank right next to my main tank so that I wasn't running water hoses all over the place.

Nereaga

Nice, I think that will definately help you out. How deep is that sand bed? Any plans on adding more?

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75g Mixed Reef w/ Fish

Tommy Gun

That sand bed is just a few cupfuls out of my main tank. I thought I was going to take out a bunch for the refugium but I have changed my mind. I thought that this might be a good opportunity to add some more crushed coral (if one diatom factor is pH, that might help; even if I don't think there is) so I am adding it slowly...just in case. Then I also have another bag of live sand that I will mix it all up and I should be good.

The water line is still staying right on that mark I made so that is fantastic (I am starting to doubt myself now, can you tell?). I do have one teeny tiny leak in the plumbing but it really is ridiculously slow.....something like one drip every three to four minutes. I have tried sealing it with aquarium silicone but it might not be drying fast enough. It's killing me because it is one of the two screw-in fittings and I used a TON of thread tape (used to be a pipe fitter so it should be air tight really) and it is, of course, the one at the bottom of the tank so I would have to drain it all if I can't stop it. I will keep trying though.

It is sort of funny though....I swear that the water in the biocube is almost invisible (I am not using any of the biocube's filter system, just pushing water through it) and the water in the tank is looking good even though I stirred up a lot of sand (you can tell how cloudy it was in that picture of the tang; and that was before I started taking out sand)

Tbx

I have been in a similar situation I got a mushroom covered rock for the price of a regular live rock.

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Tommy Gun

Don't you just love when that happens?!?!?!?