Natrual Sea Water Reef Tank

lizarddoctor · 01-29-2007, 05:46 AM

Hello, I am having my first salt water reef system built at the moment and it's a doozy. The tank will be 1.4 meters long, .5 meters wide, and nearly a meter deep. It will be pushing 400 liters once it arrives this thursday and I am just too excited to wait. I think that is around 120 gallons. Since I am in Vietnam and since the costs are much lower, I just figured to go big to start. I was anticipating mixing my own water during setup, but the shop that is building it will be furnishing everything to start, including the natural sea water from Vietnam's coast. I am planning on having one end of the tank's live rock slope like a shoe from one end to the other and perhaps a cave in the middle with a hard current only near the top. I also had to get an air conditioner to keep the temp in the tank cold (around 22C) since it is much hotter here than in the other tanks where I had to keep them heated.

I do have a few questions though since the store owner doesn't speak any English at all.

Does having natural salt water from the ocean cut down set up time for introducing new members vs. having to mix fresh water with sea salts which takes time to mix?

How long is a good amount of time to let the natural water in the tank aireate (sp?) before adding anything living to the tank? Again, this goes back to having natural sea water available in abundance. Could be the same as having to mix, but I can't find that answer anywhere.

Since there will be nothing in the tank to start, should I supply the live coral and anemonie all at once? I thought that since the system needs to balance itself out, maybe the natural sea water would help if they all were introduced at once from the beginning. I could be very wrong though since I have never worked with any natural water supply before. I would never have done it this way before, but maybe I am just too excited before the fact. The costs of live coral and anemonie are nominal (about 2 USD per live coral about 5 inches wide) and fish are about the same. The store is already anticipating my project and beginning to stock extra varieties for me as it is 2 blocks from my house.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Radom · 01-29-2007, 07:39 AM

I have tried similar method while I was living in Hawaii and that is using the "natural" sea water (my backyard was the beach). It seemed like a good idea at the time but I had nothing but problems after short time. I have introduced some "unwanted" organisms into my tank and to make a long story short I had to scap the tank and start fresh (most fish got sick and died). In addition I have picked up some fish larva that actually hatched and once mature ate my surviving fish. So the moral of the story is that you have no control over the water quality unlike you do when you mix your own.

As far as speeding up the process, you still need to establish your liverock which takes time so by just using sea water rather than mixing your own you really will not speed the process by much.

As far as stocking your tank is concerned, I'm a big believer in waiting till cycling process is over (can tell where you are by monitoring your water chemistry, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc...) and then adding coral/fish to the tank. I know there are other schools of thought on this subject but my experience tought me to be patient and not try to rush it.

What type of tank you are going for fish only or reef by the way?

lizarddoctor · 01-30-2007, 06:13 AM

I was going for an entire reef system with some scattered fish, shrimp, and either starfish or clams. The 200 gallon system the shop has is quite impressive and I do have the opportunity to see the stock (live coral, anemonie, and compatable fish) before I consider bringing them home. I will have to ask again, but I think that all of the sea water is treated already as they have a large assortment of sitting barrels in the back of their shop that they will be using for the tank. The water won't be coming directly from the ocean by my hands. Could be Brackish water too since the southern Saigon River basin breaks about 30 miles from here too (Where they are getting it is another question I need to ask them). The shop is really taking over the setup process and furnishing everything that I would need without having to piece together any extras. The air conditioner was a little pricey (around 170$ USD), but still I am looking at about a total of 600$ USD for the entire set-up from the shop experts themselves. The dollar does go a long way here

They stopped over to the house this afternoon to get an idea of where the tank will go and how much room they will be dealing with. I will know more in a few days.

Radom · 01-30-2007, 07:42 AM

Sounds like it will be one sweet looking tank and cheap compared to us prices for coral/fish. Make sure to post the pictures

Also you might want to test the water they use and see how it compares to self-mixed water. This way you can get some piece of mind and know that the water you getting is good.

WhoDey · 01-30-2007, 03:14 PM

WOW!! Two dollars for a coral.... that's just crazy. You can use your ocean water if you like, just test it as mentioned before. Make sure it has the right salt content by purchasing a hydrometer (only like $10 here in the States). Add lots of Live Rock 150 lbs or more. Then wait for 2 months or so for the cycle to take place. Once that is over you can add fish. I wouldn't add corals until you have a good 5 months or so under your belt... even if they are $2 they are still living creatures. Your tank just needs to mature. It gets very complicated... read the sticky on cycling your tank on the main saltwater page. You are also going to need a skimmer, especially if you are going to have corals. Does you setup include a refugium? Again... Add water, heater, airconditioner/chiller??, sand, 150 lbs or more of LR, Skimmer and then wait for 2 months or so. Keep checking your levels and post them here, we will tell you if your tank is ready. Cheers!

-nate

lizarddoctor · 01-31-2007, 02:48 AM

Lol, I feel a bit goofy since I had to do a web search on 'refugium'. Gave me a good 10 min online education though, my many thanks for mentioning it. I don't have one of those included, but now that I am looking at one online... I sure want one of those now too.

Once the main tank gets a bit settled, I will talk to the guys about adding one on to the side of the tank as I still have some space left. I will get a pic of the basic tank in a few days after they install it.

If it is set up like the tank they have at the store, there will be a 4 trough filtration system on the bottom and another on the top of the tank. I believe the air conditioning unit will go below and the skimmer on top. Yes, it's AC and not a heater here. The average temp outside is 95F everyday with a low of about 80 at night. Inside where the tank is stays around 85F unless I keep the front door open all day. Everything is included in the setup, the only thing I had to pay extra for is the AC.

The costs of the anemone, compatable fish, and coral was the main reason I went so big to start. The tank I helped maintain at a friends for two years ended up fish only and I saw the limitations that he had financially after about 6 months. He dumped a lot of cash into his system and after a few blunders, it never really blossomed into a reef tank that he wanted so he went fish only and lost some interest when he looked at his pocketbook. Neither of us had a lot of experience before, but I think that the tank maintinence exp. was invaluable. The costs here have me thinking big over the long haul. Hope that the cycle doesn't take 2-5 months though, but I can wait if it does.

WhoDey, if your a college football person... sorry about the buckeyes. Missed the game over here and probably glad I did. I'm from NW Ohio originally and seeing the score on the net took something out of me.

WhoDey · 01-31-2007, 08:28 PM

Your cycle won't take that long (maybe a month). But your tank needs to mature, so that macro and micro organisms build up. These are the organisms that will keep your tank healthy and stable as well as assist your corals. It sounds like you will probably have enough filtration already with the setup they are giving you. Take some pics of the setup as well as your tank when they are done. I'm very curious to see what they get you setup with. Sounds really cool! It really doesn't seem like it takes that long once you get everything rolling. You will be adding inverts and various other things that will keep your occupied while you wait for your tank to mature. Trust me, it will be worth the wait.

-I am a football fan and I was a little upset about that game... but I'm over it.

WhoDey · 01-31-2007, 08:29 PM

Your cycle won't take that long (maybe a month). But your tank needs to mature, so that macro and micro organisms build up. These are the organisms that will keep your tank healthy and stable as well as assist your corals. It sounds like you will probably have enough filtration already with the setup they are giving you. Take some pics of the setup as well as your tank when they are done. I'm very curious to see what they get you setup with. Sounds really cool! It really doesn't seem like it takes that long once you get everything rolling. You will be adding inverts and various other things that will keep your occupied while you wait for your tank to mature. Trust me, it will be worth the wait.

-I am a football fan and I was a little upset about that game... but I'm over it.

lizarddoctor · 02-04-2007, 04:14 AM

Well, the tank with the entire setup of equipment was getting underway today when... ack... the front glass was scratched on the inside of the tank nearly a foot long and quite visible. I'm a little disappointed to say the least, but a new tank is being built now and the entire project is pushed back another 5 days or so. Looks like they decided to build a 3 trough system to go with the protein skimmer and a larger 5 trough system to go with the AC under the tank. They also brought large bags of small ocean gravel rather than sand for the bottom of the tank along with at least 150lbs of live rock that are just sitting here waiting for a home. I hope to get some pictures up soon when I have a chance to load them up to my own site host.

lizarddoctor · 02-09-2007, 03:11 AM

Here is the link to the set up of my reef tank. Tried to keep it pretty visual although I did forget to pick up the camera a few times. Thank god my wife was on top of things. Quite different set up from many tank systems I have seen back home, but this looks to be the standard salt setup here in Vietnam in most of the stores I have found.

http://www.saigonesl.com/FishTank/tankdocs2.htm